Discovering the Gooder Life with Kendall Layman

Ever wondered what the secret to a "Gooder" life might be? I did! So I had a conversation with veteran and author, Kendall Layman, who has penned the book "The Gooder Life," illuminating the path to a more fulfilling existence. Kendall shares his journey and candidly discusses the healing power of writing, the often overlooked art of organizing thoughts, and the potential of this to improve mental health.

This conversation is set to not just inspire but also offer practical strategies for improved communication, relationships, and personal growth. So, gear up for this captivating journey towards living a more fulfilling, "gooder" life.

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Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:07

Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast, where we communicate about how we communicate. I'm your host, jennifer Furlong, so Kendall.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Yes.

Speaker 2: 0:30

Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1: 0:31

Thank you. Thank you for having me Looking forward to the conversation.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Absolutely. I am so happy to have you on the show. I think we're going to have a fantastic conversation. So first of all, thank you for your service, thank, you.

Speaker 2: 0:45

I love highlighting veterans on my show. As a fellow veteran, it's a nice opportunity to be able to show the world, share with the world that yes, there are things we are accomplishing out here, and so I appreciate the opportunity to be able to do that. I think you're really going to enjoy today's conversation. Number one the reason my interest was piqued and having Kendall on the show is the title of his book, the Gooder Life, in layman's terms, and I was like that's a pretty awesome title. So consider my interest piqued. I want to talk to this guy and kind of pick his brain and see what this is all about. And, of course, communication and listening skills are at the heart of having a good or life right. It's definitely building block of that. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and how did you get to this point? How did you get to the point of writing the book the Gooder Life?

Speaker 1: 1:46

Yeah, I grew up in a small town in Northwest Arkansas had an idea that I wanted to. As a kid I tore electronics apart. I love to tear things apart Just figured I would do that in my career. I had no idea there were no careers of tearing electronics apart, but I just thought I wanted to do that. I'm colorblind, though, and that pretty much sealed the deal on any kind of electronics that's all color coded. So I ended up going into the United States Air Force and was a computer operator and went to school at night, became a computer programmer, and that's really what started my IT career, which I've been in for almost 40 years now.

Speaker 1: 2:25

But as I got out of the Air Force actually while I was in the Air Force and after getting out of the Air Force and starting my career, I was one of those guys that would I like to observe people. I would look at people who were my mentors, people who were my supervisors, my bosses, my friends, and I just kind of recorded mentally, and in a journal also, things that would draw me to them. You know, I was the guy who would sit in an office and say, man, if I ever get to be a leader, I want to do things like this person or I don't want to do things like this person, and so I just began to kind of collect these items that seem to set people apart and make them different. At some point a few years ago, I finally had a head full of information that I just had to get out, just simply for my sanity. So I said I'm going to write a book. Not knowing anything about the process, was able to be introduced to a lady in tech. She led me and gave me great guidance, was able to get a book out. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done. You think you've got all of this and you just start to write it and all of a sudden it's like that's it. That's all there is. I only wrote one paragraph, right. So you've really got to dig in there and really think about all of the stuff you've learned over those years and put some substance around them.

Speaker 1: 3:57

I tell a lot of people I know that I'm a new writer and writing, just like any other skill, has to be developed, and I think you develop that by reading, by talking on podcasts like this, by learning different things, and today, if I were to write the book again, it would probably look different. It would be the same content, but I would have developed it differently or something. But what I do tell people is that the content of the book is not anything new. It's very simple steps to living a different type of life, but it's real and it's solid. Whether I present it to you that way or not, it is real and solid. And if you follow the steps I say in the book, if you incorporate those things into your life, I truly believe it'll set your life apart and you'll be a different person because of it. And so that's where I got today.

Speaker 2: 4:48

That's awesome. There's something you said I wanted to just kind of dive into a little bit. You talked about how, going through this process of writing this book and picking things apart and learning how to express yourself in the storytelling, you're having to learn this skill, that you're developing this newfound skill, and you said it was very therapeutic. I think that's something really important to underscore as a part of something you stand to gain in written communication. I don't think enough people really give it the opportunity to just sit down and get your thoughts down on paper, get your feelings down on paper. Like you said, it does kind of help with the sanity bit. I've experienced the same thing. Can you say a little bit more about that, about the process itself, and what was it about this process that helped you feel like you were gaining, just maybe, a stronger footing?

Speaker 1: 5:48

You know, I've always been a journaler. Maybe it's just writing down the things I do at work each day, you know, just keeping track of what I do, so I won't forget those. But I've always been a person that when something comes into my head I'll just grab a notebook and just write about it. Maybe it's a paragraph, maybe it's a page, but, like you said, it helps me to get that out, number one, and then to be able to reread back through that and confirm what I was thinking and maybe even while I'm writing I come up with a different thought. You know, I think that's kind of what we are as human beings we need to get things out. You've always seen people who and we've said about them they bottle things up inside of them. At some point you're going to explode and you've got to get that stuff out. For me it is therapeutic to get that out and to be able to write about it.

Speaker 1: 6:40

I talk about one of the things in the book essential attitudes. I call them three essential attitudes and it's kind of the foundation, but one of those is being thankful. Being thankful for me is it's a perspective exercise. Each morning I try to take some time to think about things I'm thankful for. But to go back to your question, there was one time in my life a few years ago where I was just kind of down and I'm not really a down person. I began to get up each day and I would write down three or four or five things in a journal that I was thankful for, and it began to make a difference in my life and I thought why is that making a difference? And what I realized was when we're kind of in a down state or things are kind of catastrophic around us or they're just swirling and it's pulling our attention in all different directions, we're very focused on ourselves and what I learned was when I would stop, be quiet, write down things I was thankful for, for that brief moment my eyes would turn away from myself and out to the things I was thankful for. What I learned was that the things around me that didn't necessarily change, but my view of those things around me, begin to change and I begin to approach those things differently, simply because of having a thankful attitude and writing down what I was thankful for.

Speaker 1: 8:06

And so I'm very much a believer in that writing process and and to get all of this book out on paper. It was a great accomplishment for me because it was like I did it. But but much more than that was just getting it out, and If I can help someone who maybe reads the book, if I can help them learn one thing, then it was worth writing the book. And that was something my publisher really, really talked to me about was Kindle. If you could affect one person in this world by writing this book, would you write it? Well, I think, of course, we would all say yes, and I said yes, and so that's really been my goal through the whole writing process was can I share something? I want to share a quote with you. I read this this last week, so this is brand new. This is on your podcast.

Speaker 1: 8:55

Only Nobody else has heard, but I'm gonna read it right now. Your journey is not the same as mine and my journey is not yours, but if we meet on a certain path, may we encourage each other. And so that was kind of my my process in this. I've had a, I've got a story in my life and I wanted to share that story. But my story is not your story and your story is not mine. But there may be some similarities of things that we've gone through where, when we do meet, I can't tell you how to handle your problems or happiness and you can't tell me. But we can share those Things that we've gone through and maybe encourage each other. And that was my purpose in writing this book, and just getting it out on paper was hopefully to encourage other people.

Speaker 2: 9:43

Oh, I love that because there is not one of us who has not Experienced some type of hardship. Sure, you know, so many have gone through whatever type of trauma, you know, and, and it can be very difficult. Just, life is not easy. There's always something Waiting right around the corner, you know, just when you think you have things handled, it's just gonna completely, just knock you down.

Speaker 2: 10:13

And so to be able to have something to go to, to look forward to, you know, a sense of support or a sense of hope, you know something to look forward to the future, that's so incredibly important. And you know I'm so happy that you got this book out, because, for you, what a fantastic process to be able to go through. You know I understand exactly how you feel when it's like, oh, look at that, okay, let me sit back and kind of pat myself on the back for a little bit. But then you're like, okay, now, what can I do with this? The book is written right. You know, now how do I get this out to where people can actually read it, so I can impact others, you know, so they can benefit from this?

Speaker 2: 11:04

absolutely take me through some of the major Ideas. What are some of the building blocks that you have within this book that we could take away? You know that. You know earlier I had mentioned we like to talk about communication skills, and we've already touched on one of those how written Communication can absolutely be therapeutic. But take me through some of the other things that you may have touched on in connection to communication skills in your book.

Speaker 1: 11:32

So, so let me tell you real quickly these Essential attitudes and principles I talked about, and then we'll highlight one of those because of your podcast. So my essential attitudes are just being thankful, being humble and being respectful, mm-hmm, and those three items, which I call the foundation, are going to tie into the one item that it's a principle that really talks to your podcast. My building blocks are having a purpose being a listener, being a thinker, just being aware, emotional intelligence, being aware of your surroundings, being aware of other things around you, making good choices and then being a finisher of things that you start. So so let's talk about the listening part, which is one of the six building block principles I talked about in the book. I read something one time I think it was called the lost art of listening, was the book that I read, and essentially, the main, main theme of this book is that when you are listening, it's not about you, it's about the other person. That's right.

Speaker 1: 12:40

I remember one day, a Person I worked with was going through kind of a hard time here at work and and I've been what on the leadership team for a while and and have been a mentor to many people in our company and and they called me and I realized at the beginning of this conversation that they just needed to get stuff out. It was emotional, it was a. It was a time just to to be mad, to be angry, to be upset, and I caught myself at one point in that conversation of saying, yes, I remember one time when I and I stopped and I thought you know what? Yes, I do have a story that would Maybe give them some insight into what they're going through. But right now, this is not about me telling a story. This is about me listening to them and just allowing them to get this out, and that was a great lesson for me.

Speaker 2: 13:41

Even and I had already written about this- yeah, was that before or after you had read that? The book about?

Speaker 1: 13:47

it after it was, after I'd read the book, and it made me Think about that.

Speaker 1: 13:51

You know, a great, a great testament to what we learn when we read books. I don't I don't remember a whole lot about that book, but I do remember that and that was, that was a central theme that helped me with this person and it's helped me many times after that too. You know, you mentioned about going through times in our lives and that's one of the things in the book I talk about, about life-changing moments, those things we go through that make us go to bed at night and see the world differently than we did that morning, because something has truly changed us. That could be good, that could be bad, but when we do that we learn things of how we talked earlier about maybe giving people advice and what.

Speaker 1: 14:33

What I learned through my life-changing moment is that I don't have all of the answers, and what I learned going through my time of life-changing Was that I really enjoyed when people just came and sat with me and just allowed me to maybe be, be quiet, maybe to talk. We live in a world where we talk about awkward silence. I Kind of like awkward silence myself, because sometimes I love silence.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Well, if you were going through a hard time, jen and and I was one of your close friends and I came to you. Maybe you need me just to sit there with you. That's right, and let's be quiet. You know that's really listening.

Speaker 1: 15:17

Yeah there's just no verbal listening going on, but we're both just kind of listening. We're listening by. I'm watching your actions, I'm watching your movements, maybe I'm watching you cry, maybe I'm watching you laugh, I, but I'm observing and I'm recording that and in a sense that's kind of listening, and so that's what I talk about in the book. That's why it's so important is how many times have we seen these people in our lives where you're talking to them and they're looking at you and then when you finish talking, they say now, what about so-and-so? And you think I just told you that right, yeah, right. And I've had that happen so many times and you think what's the point of even talking?

Speaker 2: 16:02

Those are thinking about everything else.

Speaker 1: 16:05

And then those times where you're talking to someone and you know they're simply waiting for you to stop so they can talk.

Speaker 2: 16:12

Yeah, that's all they're doing here.

Speaker 1: 16:14

You know, that's not the person I want to be. I want to be the person that's willing to listen to what you say, contemplate what you said and then, if there's a response needed, give you that response. Or maybe there's not a response needed, that's right. That's the listening I talk about in the book.

Speaker 2: 16:35

Research shows that Baby Boomers are struggling to find a trusted source offering the latest and most reliable information on their interests and needs. Babyboomerorg is an online membership community created by and for the Baby Boomer generation to be the ultimate source for news, information and community. Babyboomerorg's mission is to bring Baby Boomers together to improve their quality of life, to help them pay it forward and to help younger generations and to change the Baby Boomer perception from OK Boomer to Thanks Boomer. Access online courses and resources, discover news and become a part of a community by clicking on the link in the show notes. Yeah, you have touched on several important aspects of listening, and one of them I want to dive into for the listeners here, those of you who are listening and paying attention and just not passively getting the information. You touched on a skill called empathic listening, and my longtime listeners have heard this story a million times, so guess what? You're just going to have to hear it just one more time. You all.

Speaker 1: 17:53

So that is perfect. I'm going to need to hear it.

Speaker 2: 17:56

I am not naturally an empathic listener, it's just my personality. I very much am a problem solver and so my go-to instinct is, when somebody comes to me and they start complaining about something or what I would consider to be whining about something, you know they're going through something. I have had to learn over time to keep my mouth shut, kind of like what you were talking about after reading that book. You have to just sit there and even though at the moment I may not necessarily be able to relate to whatever it is they're going through right in that moment, but that doesn't even matter. If I can't relate to it, it does not even matter.

Speaker 2: 18:39

So, learning that skill of staying silent, let them vent, let them get off of their chest whatever they need to get off of their chest and then wait, because if they want you to help them solve the problem, or if they're even interested in your opinion about the problem, they will ask you. So don't offer it before they ask. Yeah. So it seems like I have really good empathy and those empathic listening skills, but I've just learned how to trick everybody. So what skill you can learn, y'all it is.

Speaker 1: 19:21

No, you're exactly right, and I don't have all of the answers a lot of time when I'm talking with people. But they didn't ask me to have all of the answers. They asked me to be there because I'm a friend and they trust me. You know, that's a key thing too, what I just said right there. In order for somebody to share with you those deep feelings, a lot of times they have to trust you. That's right, and that trust is built through a relationship. It takes time to build that trust. It takes a very short time to break that trust, and maybe breaking that trust would be that they're not listening to me. They don't want to hear what I've got to say. But trust is a big thing. I told you all ago about the three essential attitudes of thankful, humble, respectful, and those three go into the listening also, because I have to be respectful enough of you to allow you to talk and you may actually say some things that I don't agree with. I wish you wouldn't say them, but that's not the point. Right then, I respect you enough to allow you to have your time.

Speaker 1: 20:25

Humbleness we have to be humble enough to understand that we don't have all of the answers, that I'm not here to fix all of the problems. I'm here just to be your friend. You know this goes into the workplace also. There's lots of times where I'm in meetings and you need to just listen and learn. I don't have all of the answers. I don't know everything about what we're doing, yet I've got good people around me who do, and I need to be humble enough to know that, yes, I'm the leader, but I don't have to have all of the answers in the room. We've all heard that say you don't have to be the smartest person in the room. A lot of people, unfortunately, feel like they do need to be. I'm the leader, I need to be the smartest. No, you don't. In fact, you'll probably win people over more by just being humble enough to say that I don't have all of the answers. I need you to tell me what's going on here.

Speaker 1: 21:19

And so all of it, all of the stuff in the book kind of ties together and can be used as a communication book.

Speaker 2: 21:28

It absolutely could.

Speaker 2: 21:29

You know another thing that you had mentioned earlier that made me think of a concept in communication, you know we talk about, there's a difference between the content level meaning of a communication act versus a relationship level meaning of a communication act.

Speaker 2: 21:49

And so when you were talking about silence and just being there, and there does not have to be anything said but the fact of just being there in that moment, you know, and this plays into the building, the trust that you were talking about, you know, if we say something that or we don't say something, the content level meaning is you know exactly what it is we said.

Speaker 2: 22:12

You know, if I tell you I care about you, you're getting that message right. But the relationship level meaning is what really comes through in those moments. So you don't even really have to say I care about you, but by sitting there and maybe holding their hand or putting your hand on their shoulder, or maybe you don't even have to touch them in that moment, you just sit there very quietly while they cry, while they get it out, and that relationship level meaning that's coming through by doing that action is saying I care about you, and that will solidify their trust in you a thousand times more than you could say I care about you 100 times. But that one act is what really will get them to understand that you truly do care about them. So I appreciate that you brought up the example of silence, because you're right. I don't think enough of us really appreciate what silence can do in a relationship.

Speaker 1: 23:18

Absolutely, and you talked about empathy earlier and right there you talked about maybe somebody crying. The silence can make us uncomfortable. Emotion can make us uncomfortable also, oh yeah, but if we're there truly because we care about that person, we'll be OK with that. We'll be OK to let them cry, we'll be OK to let them laugh at times where we think, why are you laughing? We'll be OK for the silence. I'm a firm believer that our lives are built on relationships. We need human-to-human interaction. We need to talk with people. I don't feel like we can be our best selves if we are in a cocoon and just don't interact with anybody.

Speaker 1: 24:03

And so building those relationships in life are extremely important, especially when you have those times where you need those people that you trust around you. You're thankful to have them and you're thankful that you had those relationships built.

Speaker 2: 24:20

That's right. Building that trust is really the foundation you need in order to have the more difficult conversations as well. Because I noticed earlier you know you had mentioned if someone is having a hard time and you know they're just kind of maybe unloading on you and they may say something you don't agree with, they may say something that is maybe a little harsh because in that moment they're just so emotional and that's what's driving whatever it is that they're talking about. And and that brings up a point that sometimes it's not the time and place to bring up something that you know you probably should bring it up at some point, especially if they said something really upsetting or they said something that was untrue, you know, said something that maybe was cruel in the moment, you know, because of the emotions.

Speaker 2: 25:14

But there is a time and place and if you have been able to create a strong foundation of trust, then later on, when the emotions have subsided and we were thinking with our logical brain again, then that could be a good opportunity to say hey, you know, do you have a moment I just want to talk about, you know, something that that you had mentioned earlier and, yeah, that that opens up that opportunity to have that conversation. So I think you are so correct in that you know sometimes it's not the time and place. You have to be able to wait for the appropriate moment to bring up some things, especially if there are emotions involved.

Speaker 1: 25:59

Absolutely In an emotional moment. There may even be times where you're just that innocent listener. You're there to help them, but all of a sudden, some of the direction of the anger may come right at you. Well, you don't understand. You've never had to do this, you've never done this, and I think that's that time where you have to understand. This is not personal for me, about me. They're just struggling right now. You've got to be able to take that.

Speaker 1: 26:30

But you mentioned about saying things sometimes when it's not the right place, it's not the time, and I talk about that exactly under awareness in my book. Yeah, there is a how many times have we been in a conversation or been in a room with people and somebody says something and everybody kind of cringes and you think, oh, that is not the right thing to say right now. Oh, yeah, A board room, anything. It's not the time to say that. That's just that part of understanding what's going on around us, understanding the emotions around us, reading the people around us, reading the room around us and just being aware to know what's right and what's wrong right now. And so I talk about that, exactly that exact thing that you mentioned. But you're exactly right on the emotions. Emotions are hard, yeah, they are. Sometimes you got to just let them get out, yeah, and then we can maybe have a little bit more of a logical discussion after that.

Speaker 2: 27:40

Yeah, you're right, and you had mentioned, you know, somebody may tell you you don't understand, you've never been through this and really the response is you're right, you're right, I don't, I can't understand. I mean I've, you're right, I may have had an experience that might be similar but, I'm not having your experience.

Speaker 1: 28:04

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 28:05

This happens a lot in you know I'm a cancer survivor and this is a conversation that I've had with a lot of other cancer survivors is like when you first get diagnosed and everybody it seems like everybody has advice for you, or they have you know like a remedy for you, or they tell you, oh well, at least it's not this kind of cancer, as if you know like you got the good cancer right. It's so. You know, as the person on the receiving end, it really serves to diminish what it is that you're going through, and I know people mean well sure.

Speaker 2: 28:46

So this is just a good learning opportunity for anybody who's listening to our conversation. Is you know when somebody's coming to you and they really are going through it?

Speaker 1: 28:56

Sure they are.

Speaker 2: 28:57

You know, and it's, it's not for us to determine how bad it is or how good it is for them, because that oftentimes will just make them feel worse. You know, you think you're trying to say something to make it better, but in actuality you're making it worse. So that's why you really just have to. If they blow up, don't take it personally. Just say you're right, you're. I don't get it. I don't understand it because I haven't. I haven't been through what you're going through right now.

Speaker 1: 29:28

Great point and and for your listeners also. So when I talked earlier about our life changing moment, mine was my sister passed away. That was really the first person in my life that was very close to me, who I had lost. So so it was new for me to go through this experience. I hadn't done this before, and what I found is that, like you said, many people will come up to you and say hey, I know what you're going through. Right, Probably the same thing happened to you. Hey, I had the same thing happen to me. No, you didn't have the same thing.

Speaker 1: 30:02

But what I had to learn was what exactly you said. They don't really know what to say. They're trying to say something that will comfort you. That is not a comforting thing to say. And so what I learned through that and when I have been with people who have lost a loved one or anything since that point, I'll do exactly what you said. Well, I'll go up to them and say I don't know what you're going through, but I want you to know I'm here and if you need me, I can listen, I can help you do something, I can run errands for you. You know that's what people want. And so for your listeners, if they do go through these types of things with people, just be sensitive to the fact that while you have gone through something similar, you don't know their experience, so just be there for them. Be there.

Speaker 2: 30:56

And there's. You know that goes a long way. If you don't know what to say, it's okay to say it's fine. I don't know what to say. This is horrible. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Speaker 1: 31:07

Yes. And that's all you need to say. That's it, that's it, that's it. They just want to know you care. That's right. That's all that needs to be made known in that conversation, as I care for you.

Speaker 2: 31:20

I had interviewed some time ago a woman who works in HR and her husband had passed away from cancer, and, as an HR director, it helped her realize, you know, we're talking about going through different experiences and your eyes are open to things that you had never even considered before. And so, as an HR director, it made her realize, wow, managers really aren't equipped to know what to say or you know how to react if any of their employees experience a big loss, you know, like the one that she had. And so we had a very similar conversation and one thing that she gave my listeners as a piece of advice and I thought it was a wonderful piece of advice. She said you know, if somebody is going through something really, really difficult like that, it's not enough to say, hey, just let me know what you need, sure, because at that point they may not even know what they need.

Speaker 2: 32:27

But the more specific you can be, just like you gave a really good example hey, if you need me to run some errands for you, I can do that. You know, that's very specific. If you need me to wash the pile of dishes right here, I will take care of that for you, like. So you know the more specific you can be if you really truly want to help that person out. That takes the burden off of them to try to figure out how you can help. So again, let's not make it about us, right. Let's really, really pay attention to something very specific that could actually be helpful, and I thought that was such a fantastic piece of advice for anybody who really wants to be someone of service. Really.

Speaker 1: 33:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:16

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Speaker 1: 34:05

You know, Jim, we could talk all day heading down that path that the HR manager talked about, but it's a great example also, and this is a bit different and I'll stray here and come back.

Speaker 2: 34:16

But I love to stray, so that's what all these conversations are for.

Speaker 1: 34:22

How many times in companies and places where we've worked are people hired for leadership positions based upon their skills in a job, but not necessarily based upon the people skills, the soft skills, and so we put somebody in a position where they're gonna fail, probably because when you do begin to start getting those leadership positions, you're going to deal with things in people's lives. Everybody has lives outside of this work and those are going to bleed over into this at some point, and maybe we need to focus a little more on the soft skills of the people that we put in leadership positions.

Speaker 2: 35:05

Well, I am a little biased because my background is in communication, so of course I'm gonna agree with you on that. I'm actually on a personal crusade right now to even change the language that we use.

Speaker 2: 35:18

When we talk about communication skills, like I hear it referred to as soft skills, and we've been referring to written communication, oral communication, listening skills as soft skills since I mean I can remember. I mean it's you know, every business book that you would read will probably mention, you know, soft skills at some point. I think we're at a point that it's we understand that communication skills are so critical, especially for leaders, managers, employees, personal relationships if you want to become engaged civically and, you know, make a difference in your communities. I think we're beginning to realize, finally, that these skills, they're not necessary, they're not really soft, are they?

Speaker 1: 36:06

I mean they are critical skills.

Speaker 2: 36:10

These are critical skills. Yeah, yeah, and I agree with you 100%, but again, I'm biased because I'm the one that's preaching it.

Speaker 1: 36:22

You know, I heard a man say one time I'm gonna make this up, let's say it's an automotive company but he told me he said you know, the automotive part of the business is 20%. The people part of the business is about 80%.

Speaker 2: 36:37

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:39

And yet we do everything focused on that 20% a lot of times instead of that 80%. I've learned that in my career it's the dealing with the people that usually ends up being the hardest, but I will say it can be the most fulfilling also, and it's the area where we end up focusing most of our time, a lot of the time.

Speaker 2: 37:02

Oh yeah, it's usually what happens in an organization is congratulations, you are awesome at your job, we're gonna give you a promotion. So you move up and all of a sudden, you are responsible for all of these people. You have all of these direct reports now and you have absolutely no idea what in the hell you're supposed to do with all of these direct reports.

Speaker 2: 37:26

And unfortunately, a lot of managers in that respect are set up for failure because they are fantastic at their job but then they're not given the opportunity to develop those other skills that are so critical and being successful.

Speaker 1: 37:43

Yes, and many times we put them in that position and then we leave them.

Speaker 2: 37:47

Oh yeah, figure it out right.

Speaker 1: 37:49

I very much respect the companies that put people in a new leadership position and then have a program, just spend time with them and make sure that they go through some certain classes or trainings and they stay with them for like that first year to make sure everything's okay. Unfortunately, I don't see that a whole lot.

Speaker 2: 38:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:12

And yet that's what needs to happen. If you're going to do that, if you're going to put those people there, which people wanna move up I mean, that's their goal a lot of times but you've gotta be there to help nurture them and guide them and make sure that they stay away from some of those potholes and pitfalls that are out there in front of them.

Speaker 2: 38:31

That's right. So have you thought about taking your book into different organizations and using that as a tool to maybe help them develop a program? Or maybe you come in and just do some skills training?

Speaker 1: 38:48

with leaders. I very much have. In fact, I've got a friend who's a personal coach and that's something I've really learned about through this, through the book process and meeting new people and being able to venture into areas I've really never ventured in before. There's this huge area of coaching. I guess I called it mentor in my past, but what I've learned is that I had this friend and he uses my book as kind of a curriculum and I'm happy for him to do that because it's very much set.

Speaker 1: 39:23

I told you the attitudes and the principles, but it's each one of those. You can spend time with a person and help them identify the areas in their lives where maybe they're strong in a certain area or they're weak in another area. The book is set up to do that very easily and so, yeah, I have thought about that and, honestly, the part where I feel the most comfortable, the part where I enjoy and I have fun doing, is talking with you and talking with other people. These were my words put into a book, but the words were my story and I've always told my story and I'm most comfortable telling my story. So I guess maybe one of the things by writing the book was to hope that it unlocked some doors that would allow me to come in and now be able to talk to you, and whether that's a group of a thousand or a group of two, it doesn't matter, it's just being able to share those lessons I've learned and maybe help you along your way.

Speaker 2: 40:27

Yeah, I agree. That's one of the most rewarding parts of what I do when I go into organizations if I can work with a small group of people or if it's just one-on-one.

Speaker 2: 40:40

To be able to have those conversations and share your stories and then to see the connections being made. That is so incredibly rewarding. And I taught communication at the college level for 18 years, and that was another thing. You made me think of that when you talked about starting out in IT, because at the university I was teaching at, most recently they made it a requirement that all of the IT students, computer sciences students, they have to take public speaking as a course to graduate. And of course, oh the hemming in the hawing right From the students. It's like the lamenting that was happening. But then by the end of the semester it never failed. Every single time they were like, oh man, we should have taken this a long time ago. And I'm like, yeah, too bad, you're a senior now and you're graduating. You know, imagine how this could have helped you three years ago.

Speaker 1: 41:39

Unfortunately, it has always kind of got the They've kind of got the stigma that they're intelligent nerds. They can't speak any other language but the technology language. I think that's a great idea to have them be able to, because, honestly, in a career in IT, you're going to have to talk to users of your systems, you're going to have to talk to the business and you need to be able to translate those technical ideas into speech that people understand. So that's a skill that has to be taught for sure. So good for you doing that.

Speaker 2: 42:16

Yeah, and I found that the IT students, the computer science students that were in my class, oftentimes they were so incredibly creative with their speeches, so it just gave them an opportunity to do something different. And I think you're right.

Speaker 2: 42:35

there is this kind of stigma that's attached to even just going into STEM in any of these tech-oriented type of career paths and for them to be able to have a space where they were given permission to, hey, be as creative as you want. I just want you to write this out, practice it and then present it to us and you pick the topic, and it really helped me see how it was a different side. It was a different side to these students that it was truly. It was just the coolest thing to be in the classroom with them. So that was really something that I quite enjoyed being with those students. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oftentimes they have a very deep insight into a lot of the things that we would discuss in our communication classes if given the opportunity to do that. There's one thing I wanted to ask you before we ran out of time Could you share with us the title of your book? How did you arrive at the good or life?

Speaker 1: 43:47

Yeah. So when I was younger I went to my uncles. And the reason we went to my uncles is because I had a pretty large-sized family that's my mom's brother and so he had the house the size that would hold us all for the Christmas gatherings and Thanksgiving gatherings, things like that and he was always a very positive man still is to this day and I walked in one day and he said how are you doing, kendall? And I said I'm OK and he said no, there's only two kinds of days good or good. That was a story I told for many years just like that, and people would always kind of laugh and I would talk about how he knew it was grammatically incorrect, but it was a way to get something across. And what I learned over time, especially through the writing of this book, is that While it's fine to get up each day and make a choice of today's going to be either good or good, or that's not what he was really telling me. What he was telling me is that living a gooder life is having a mindset that today I'm going to try to be better than I was yesterday. I'm going to shoot for that gooder. I've learned that through all of this, but people have asked me so what is the good or life? How do you live the good or life? What does that even mean? There are times in people's lives where they don't have the energy, they don't really have the want to, a lot of times, to want to choose good or gooder on a day. There's something that's happened that has just made them struggle to even get through a day. Sometimes being gooder is just surviving the day and just trying to make it through. I understand that and that's why I talk about those life-changing moments. There are those times in life where it's just not feasible to ask someone to do that the good or life.

Speaker 1: 45:33

I was reading a quote one time by a man named Raul O May and he said the opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. It's a good quote Basically doing what I've always done, because that's just what I've always done, and not really knowing why I even do it. I looked at that one time and I was thinking about that in light of the good or life and I thought you know, to live the good or life, it takes courage. It takes courage to get up today and say, all right, I'm not going to do what I've always done. I'm not going to do what everybody else is doing. I'm going to do what I know I need to do to be better today than I was yesterday. That takes a lot of courage, it takes effort. It's easy to just do whatever and not really know why.

Speaker 1: 46:17

But to live intentionally and to think about every action that you do, think about everything you say, think about listening, think about being aware it takes effort to do that every day on everything that you do. But what I said about it was, if you can do those two things and you can incorporate these things in the book that I talk about, the good or life is a life of freedom that you will never experience, maybe ever again, because for the first time, you have control of what you're doing. You're not letting all of the ebbs and flows of the world dictate what you do, how you think, what your emotions are. You're taking control of that.

Speaker 1: 47:06

There was a man named Hal Elrod, I believe was his name, and he had a quote one time, and it said the moment you accept responsibility for everything in your life is the moment you gain the power to change anything in your life, and so that's really what the good or life is is just stepping out, committing to being different not being different just to be different, but being different because that's what's going to make me better than I was yesterday and understanding that I don't have to be pushed around by the winds of life. I can make those decisions myself and choose whether I'm going to allow that thing that's swirling around me to make me be negative today or I'm going to choose to be positive and if we can do it now understand I'm saying if, because I don't have this mastered isn't hard- it is hard.

Speaker 1: 48:01

And they're going to be those times where you fail and you're going to backslide and you're not going to make the right choice and you are going to allow the winds of life to shift you around. But at least if we're just aware of what I need to do, I don't want to do that, I don't want to allow that. To do that to me, just to have that thought is the right thought to have and to pull ourselves out of that. And so that's what the good or life is, and that's where it started, from my uncle one day in a farmhouse in Arkansas just telling me make a choice to be good or good.

Speaker 2: 48:38

I love it. And you're so right. You know what we have to forgive ourselves for being human. We're going to have those moments.

Speaker 2: 48:46

I have learned that I will give myself permission to have my temper tantrum for about 20 minutes get it out of my system and then at the end of the 20 minutes it's like okay, jen, get it together, what is your next move? We really do have to allow ourselves that moment. Sure, things are going to hit the fan, it just happens. But I really appreciate you underscoring the importance of intentionality. And it is a choice every single day, and sometimes it's a difficult choice to get out of the bed some days. But you're right. So you take it for what it is, forgive yourself if you have a bad day, and then how am I going to be better tomorrow? I think that's a fantastic way to move about life.

Speaker 1: 49:36

Yeah, I do my best.

Speaker 2: 49:39

I'm not perfect, but I try, that's right, none of us are.

Speaker 1: 49:43

I say I'm an evangelist for the good of life, so I'm hoping I'm just inspiring enough people to say, hey, maybe I can get up tomorrow and try to be better than I was today. If I can do that for one person, then this was all worth it.

Speaker 2: 50:00

I think that is the perfect way to end this show. I don't have anything else to add to that, because that was so well said. Yes, except for I agree. Well, kendall, it has been such a pleasure having this conversation with you. Thank you so much for wanting to be on the show and for sharing with us the book that you've written some of your life stories. It's been a real pleasure. I've truly enjoyed this conversation.

Speaker 1: 50:29

I have too. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 50:33

How can we get in touch with you?

Speaker 1: 50:34

Well, of course, on Facebook, I've got an author's page out there. Linkedin, I've got a page, but also you can go to the good or life groupcom and there's a contact form on there. If you want to talk, we'll talk and I'll listen and we'll see where that takes us. If you want me to come speak to a group, you can do it. You can contact me through there. I've tried to make it easy because I want people to be able to get me and I want to be able to talk and just express these ideas. I think it's good for our world today. I hope that more people can incorporate it in their lives.

Speaker 2: 51:08

That's right. All right, I'll make sure that that link is in the show notes, so check it out, everybody. All right, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I know I did. Once again, I want to thank you for being a guest on the show and everybody who's listening. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. All right, y'all take care now. Bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others Just about it on social media, or leave a rating and a review.