Crossroads of Celebrity and Scholarship with Educator Gene Williams

Join me, Jennifer Furlong, on a riveting episode of Communication TwentyFourSeven, where Gene Williams, an esteemed educator and former child actor, captivates us with tales from his past and insights into his educational philosophy. Transitioning from sharing the screen with icons like Bill Cosby to empowering the next generation in the classroom, Gene illuminates the profound influence role models have on our lives. 

As Gene and I delve into the intricacies of how the entertainment industry's evolving landscape impacts education, we uncover the cultural shifts from an era of mutual respect to one marred by public spats and polarization. This episode traverses the generational chasms through music and media, analyzing their effects on how we teach and learn. We examine the role of protest music as a teaching tool and the importance of fostering critical thinking in students, navigating an age where fact and opinion often collide. Gene's firsthand experiences shed light on the delicate balance educators must strike in today's classrooms, offering a beacon of hope for those shaping the minds of tomorrow.

Gene's wisdom, gleaned from years as a principal, underscores the significance of effective communication and the need for a supportive community to navigate the rocky terrain of modern schooling. His heartfelt practices, such as making sure every student hears "I love you," exemplify the transformative power of empathy in education. This episode is a treasure trove for educators, parents, and anyone passionate about the nexus of communication and education, promising to leave you with a renewed sense of purpose and a deeper understanding of the role we all play in nurturing the next generation.

Contact Gene Williams at his website: www.eugenewilliamsjr.com

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Head, Heart, and Hands Listening https://amzn.to/3wJ0oMB

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Yes, this conversation went a little long, but that's what happens when you're having a good time. As a matter of fact, we actually ran out of time, so I've already scheduled Jean to come back next month for a follow-up chat. If you are an educator, an administrator, a parent with a child in the school system or just a community member who cares about education, you want to hear this conversation, because Gene was a child actor who had the opportunity to work with many famous people. We spent some time talking about the entertainment industry and how his experience was a positive one. His parents were clear about the types of characters Gene should and should not take on. Not to mention, he had some positive role models, including Bill Cosby.

Speaker 1: 0:44

Now let me take a hot second to address the elephant. Despite the controversy surrounding Cosby in recent years, his contributions to children's education through shows like Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids and the Electric Company, and his advocacy for literacy should be acknowledged. Not to mention that for us Generation Xers, he was like America's dad for many of us for many years. Cosby's portrayal of Dr Huxtable on the Cosby Show was a positive role model who promoted strong family values, a solid work ethic and he had a fantastic sense of humor. So if you are tempted to get upset about us talking about Cosby at the beginning of the show in such a positive light, I really want you to just take a moment and hear us out, because I think it's essential that we separate his positive contributions from the serious allegations and legal issues that he has faced. Okay, that's all I got to say about that. That's just a small portion of our conversation. Really, when we get into the crux of the conversation, gene explains how he went on to have a very successful career as an educator and he most recently retired as a high school principal. He had a lot to say about the current state of education, as well as the challenges and the opportunities we have to positively influence students in and outside of the classroom.

Speaker 1: 2:10

I think you're going to enjoy it. So let's go. Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast, where we communicate about how we communicate. I'm your host, jennifer Furlong. Hey everybody, how's it going? It's Jen Furlong, host of the Communication 24-7 podcast, where we communicate about how we communicate. So I have a very special guest today and I am so excited that he has agreed to allow me to pick his brain for a little while he has such a fascinating background and we're going to get into all of it.

Speaker 1: 3:06

Gene, I just want to welcome you to the show first, before we start talking about your background and the bio. I just want the listeners to know that this is going to be a very special conversation and I want them to get their notebooks ready.

Speaker 2: 3:19

Oh boy, we're going to get them now.

Speaker 1: 3:24

No pressure though.

Speaker 1: 3:26

Might need to burn those pages after the conversation. We'll see, we'll see. But let me go ahead and give you the biography and I'm going to have to read this conversation, just based off of this man's history and what he has been able to experience, and then we'll get into some of the important school stuff that we want to talk about Absolutely. But here's who we have on the show today Gene Williams. He received his BA in English from Emory University in 91 and an MED in educational leadership from the University of Mary Washington in 2007. He's a writer, he's a speaker, he's an educator and this part is really cool. He's a former child actor who has appeared on stage, screen and television with celebrities like Bill Cosby, yossi Davis, ray Charles, pearl Bailey and Stephanie Mills. So y'all look, put a tab in that, okay, because we're going to have to hear a little bit about that. All right, in 78, he became the first Black child in a major recurring role on the highly acclaimed CBS soap opera Search for tomorrow. Another tab right there. Want to hear about that?

Speaker 1: 4:49

Gene has authored several books and within those books he has written it's a reading thing. Help your child understand the raisin and milk syndrome. Reflections of a confused middle-class black youth, youth and Grounded in the Word, an SAT verbal prep guide based on the vocabulary found in the King James Version of the Bible. I absolutely love that. So, y'all, I told you there are going to be so many interesting things. We're just going to have a fantastic journey during this conversation. His books and opinions have been featured in Jet Black Excellence, the Washington Post, various national publications. He's been a guest and a contributor on NBC, cbs, cnn and BET. He spent 27 years as a public school educator. He served as a teacher in Maryland, virginia and DC. He's been an assistant principal in both the middle and high school levels and most recently spent five years as a high school principal. And y'all know I love talking about education and everything that goes along with it. So again, gene, welcome to the show. This is like such a treat.

Speaker 2: 6:00

Well, thank you. I'm honored to be here and I just whenever I get a chance to run my mouth to folks that have common interests.

Speaker 1: 6:07

I like to take that opportunity the journey out of all of those experience you know, being in entertainment and then making that transition to education. And then also you had some things on your heart and your mind. You know, with the books that you've written Take me through that what made you make those decisions to go from entertainment into education and then have the ideas that you had for the books that you wanted to write. What were some of your inspirations behind those decisions?

Speaker 2: 6:56

Well, there were a lot of inspirations at a young age, starting at about five when I was doing television and theater and film and all of that. And, like I said, people have their own opinions about this man and I understand where those opinions come from and I'm not condoning anything that he has been alleged to have done. I can honestly tell you, one of my earliest influences in terms of education, in terms of being a positive Black male role model for my community, was when I met Dr William H Cosby Jr at the studios when I was filming the first Jell-O Pudding commercial with Bill Cosby. And to go back and to remember for a minute let's push off who he has become, let's remember who he was.

Speaker 2: 7:39

You were a Black child in the 70s when there was a big boom on television for Black images. Of course you know, because every newscast started. You started seeing. You didn't just see, you know Cannon Barber anymore. You saw a guy with a big afro and a big tie sitting across the desk from another person of another color and giving you the news. And seeing Max Robinson, jim Vance, people like that, yeah, seeing folks that you haven't seen in those positions before. And so when I think of Bill Cosby, I think of you. Look at television. He wasn't playing a pimp or a hustler, he was a spy. I spy the cartoons on Saturday Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids teaching moral lessons from kids who lived in the ghetto. Okay, we looked at Captain Kangaroo picture page. We look at the electric company all those things he was a part of, along with he was flooding back Weird and even early on he was the one that was as terms of celebrity, that was enlightening all of America about the history and the fantastic lineage of Black scientists, educators and folks who make America what America has become. So he was my first influence really one of my first influences, of course, aside from my mother and father, who were both educators.

Speaker 2: 8:55

So my dad at that time was teaching at Howard University. He later went on to become the dean of Sojourner Douglas College. Later on in life he became the testing coordinator for DC Public Schools and he went on to retirement and shout out to dad If you've ever watched an athletic event Super Bowl, nba, all-star Game and heard Lift Every Voice and Sing song or performed before the event, you have my father to thank for that. He started that movement back in 2017. When he had contacted his home team, the Washington Wizards, and they did it. And then the Brooklyn Nets caught on and the Golden State Warriors caught on, and now you see on the NBA and NFL and everywhere, even some NASCAR races, which was crazy when I saw it at a NASCAR race one day. That's pretty wild my mind, for a variety of reasons that I'm sure are obvious to us. But so then I have my mom, and both my parents are dead now.

Speaker 2: 9:47

But my mom, who was a career English teacher my mom at the height of her career, was the regional language arts coordinator for Miami-Dade Public Schools and in 2008, she ran for mayor of Miami-Dade County. Here's a crazy story. Crazy aside, her campaign only had $5,000 in its coffers. Her incumbent opponent had over a million. She did not win, but do you know? She still got 40% of the vote. That is insane and that is just based on relationships. The year she spent as an instructor and a teacher in Miami-Dade County, the time she would speak out I don't want to say, mom, be careful, you want to keep your job, but she would speak out at school board meetings. So she became a fixture in that community, both politically and educationally. So those were my major influences. Those were the guys that made me realize I really had no choice with educator.

Speaker 2: 10:41

Acting was something that was brought to me, was presented to me, I had success at, but at the end of the day, it's in my blood. So even in the roles I took, it was very important for my parents. They were very selective about the roles I took. I probably could have still been acting now. My father was, you know, and my mother especially. Listen, we have to look at these images years from now. Your kids will have to too. So you're not going to be the crackhead. You're not going to be the drug dealer. You're not going to be the street kid. You're going to be the kid that's doing well in the classroom. You're going to be the kid that's intelligent. You're going to be that in every role you search for, and so that's what we try to do.

Speaker 1: 11:20

Yeah, I think it's incredibly important to be able to recognize something that you said earlier when you were talking about Bill Cosby and not thinking about yet we all know, like you said, we all, we all know what happened, but remembering the amount of of positive influence that he had, influence that he had and when you're talking about being a Black kid watching television and you were mentioning you know things were changing and you're now able to see different faces.

Speaker 1: 11:54

you know different representation and what kind of an impact I'm sure that it had on you as a child. It's interesting being a white kid growing up and then watching Bill Cosby and in all of those shows and just loving him also as a father figure. It's really interesting coming from a different perspective. He was just such that wholesome dad that so many kids related to, regardless of what his skin color was, and I think that's a testament to his ability to just reach across and connect with people on such an emotional, you know, and and personal level.

Speaker 2: 12:36

you know, focusing on the things that you know, like values and and and family and and all of those things, because at a certain point in our recent history, we had a group of people that were trying to convince America that Black folks and white folks didn't have the same family values. I'm not trying to be difficult today, but we know that happened. Yeah, have somebody that says, oh no, it may look different, it may be meted out in a different way. Right, we still believe in all the things that most families believe in. Yeah, we still want all, we still have all the same dreams that everybody else has. And we know, as African-Americans, when the field is, when the level is, when the playing field is leveled, we can not only succeed at the game, we can master it. In many cases, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:23

And at the end of the day, who doesn't want their family to you know, to to prosper?

Speaker 1: 13:30

who doesn't want their kids to do well that that's absolutely universal and I think that is some. That's a testament to the, the power that he had to be able to bring those important topics you know across for, bring those important topics you know across for for so many people. Now, you had mentioned something about you know the stereotypes, right, and all the stereotypes that existed in the 70s into the 80s. How do you feel about? I'm kind of going, going off where I initially wanted to go, but I'm just so curious about, because you do have this background. How do you feel about the entertainment industry today? There is a lot of you know. When I go out there on social media and I'm looking at the celebrities, the performers and the images that are on stage and I'm not that familiar with you as far as you know I'm making an assumption that that you're a man of faith based on the.

Speaker 1: 14:28

James version Bible and put in the SAT, which is fascinating, you know, and I myself, being a Christian, it I can't help but to see certain images and things that happen on stage, I'm like, ah, this, this is I don't think that used to be this way Like things feel like they have shifted and so, with your background and, and you know, being in tune with entertainment industry, what, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 14:56

Well, I'd be very careful how I say this.

Speaker 1: 14:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:00

So take it in the spirit that it's given. Here's my problem with that I, I, I I'm not. I don't live under a rock. I see the social media. I see comedians especially right now I don't know what's going on with comedians. I never once saw Bill Cosby and Richard Pryor dog each other out on national television, never once saw that. And they both came from the old angle of celebrity, from two different ends of the spectrum. They always show respect for each other when asked to talk about each other.

Speaker 2: 15:33

What I see now is something that really breaks my heart, because when you have that history of stereotypes and that history of being viewed as other than or less than or not as intelligent and or more of a criminal than or whatever than you want to use, and then for the for several decades, we began to work towards moving from that and we have an opportunity as black people to I'm not saying blindly support everything that each other does, but everybody doesn't need to know your inside business. They don't. There's no reason why a Cat Williams can't take a Kevin Hart aside and say hey, man, this happened and I didn't like it. I need you to know I didn't like it. Well, let's talk about that at your house, let's talk about that in the barbershop, let's talk about that in church. Let's keep it. But when we come out to the public, that's my guy, that's my guy. He's very talented in his way, I'm very talented in mine, and we move forward. What then happens is we have a bunch of comedians coming out now and this is just my opinion who want to claim the mantle of truth tellers. Okay, and in the course of that you tear down everything that your colleagues have built and done or tried to.

Speaker 2: 16:57

You can tell the truth, but there's a way to tell the truth. There's a tone in which you can tell it. There's a place you can tell it. It doesn't have to be told to everyone. One of my colleagues back in the day, a fellow assistant principal of mine, used to say his father gave him some advice. That advice was you don't have to come to every fight you're invited to. That's such a great saying. You don't have to attend every fight you're invited to, you don't. You know, and we know, that there are some people that are making money off of prominent Black celebrities beefing with each other. They're making millions off of that. Heck, some of the people that are making millions off of that are other Black entertainers. I have my own discussions about that. I would love to take Shannon Sharp aside and say, hey, man, at what point are we going to begin to get back to what it was, what the show was about?

Speaker 1: 17:49

Right, and there's the cynic in me I can't help but to feel. Is that the core of it, is that the crux of it? There's a lot of money to be made in division. There's a lot of money to be made, and just put you on a team. You got to be on a team.

Speaker 2: 18:10

Negativity sells. But I guarantee you, I guarantee you, you will never see a show where Jerry Seinfeld dogs out Bill Burr.

Speaker 1: 18:23

No, no, I agree.

Speaker 2: 18:25

That's not the business they're in. That's not what they're about. They do what each person does and hey, have at it. There's enough pieces of pie for everybody to enjoy this thing.

Speaker 1: 18:36

Yeah, full disclosure. I saw Cat Williams live just a few weeks ago, brilliant comedian In Columbia, south Carolina, and I mean just I had not laughed that hard in such a long time.

Speaker 2: 18:49

I mean brilliant, brilliant comedian, one of my favorites.

Speaker 1: 18:53

Brilliant comedian, but I love Kevin Hart too. I will say If I have an opportunity, I'm going to go see him too.

Speaker 2: 18:59

Everybody has different tastes. Back when I was coming up, it was the Bill Cosby crowd, yeah, who liked the family stories and who liked the jokes and who liked the kind of what some people would call now mild humor. Yeah. And then there were the other side who loved the uh, the Richard Pryor fans of the world who loved the the straightforward, honest talk about living in oppressive times, living in in situations that you wouldn't want to be a part of, and how to make that funny. So that was always. Those two images have always been juxtaposed in American culture, but I never once saw the vitriol between comedians, especially African-American comedians, that I'm seeing now, and I just hope it doesn't spread to other parts of the entertainment industry. I don't ever want to see Denzel Washington disrespecting Viola Davis one day.

Speaker 1: 19:51

I can't even imagine that happening. Right, and you can't imagine that happening.

Speaker 2: 19:54

Right, and you can't imagine it happening. And that's my point. We what we need to get back to the point with our comedians where we can't imagine that happening.

Speaker 1: 20:01

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's such a good point right there and I I really hope that. I don't know, like I said, the cynic in me is thinking maybe it's on purpose, Maybe they're just drumming up business, but it's a terrible way to go about it.

Speaker 2: 20:19

It might be playing us all, but it's a very dangerous game to play and a game you probably can't come back from.

Speaker 1: 20:25

Yeah, 100%. So let me ask you, with the things that you have noticed in the entertainment industry, with media, comedians and you know we can even thinking about music and just the entire industry itself You've been in education for some time. Yeah, how much of a negative impact over time has this had on our kids and their psyche and ability to respect one another, respect education and what are some of the things that you have observed over time? Because I have not taught in K-12, but I taught at the college level for about 18 years and I know I've seen in the classroom a shift in how students communicate with one another and you know we've had conversations about how the images that they see and just you know how it impacts culture in general and our society in general in general, in our society in general. I'm just curious, from your perspective, being in K-12 and all of this experience, what have you noticed as far as its impact on kids?

Speaker 2: 21:41

Well, overall, a couple of things. First of all, we all like to act as if this current generation is the worst that we've ever seen.

Speaker 1: 21:51

Kids today.

Speaker 2: 21:53

Right, there's this big divide and every generation there was that same divide. You know, I had parents who listened to Al Green and the Spinners and I was listening to Prince and Michael Jackson and they're like what is this?

Speaker 1: 22:08

You know, what I mean. And then they look at Prince and they're like what is this?

Speaker 2: 22:15

the pants so you know, then there's that, and then I, then I, today, you know, when I talk to my daughter, who's grown, she's 25, I listen to some of the music that that her generation likes and uses classic music I said yeah, yeah, I said y'all can't, y'all can't hang with the 80s and early to mid 90s. You can't do it, don't try to. I mean, please, don't put up any of your blue-eyed soul R&B singers against Michael McDonald. Don't put it up. You can't do it. Don't put up any. Please don't tell me that Beyonce is a better entertainer than Michael Jackson. You Please don't tell me that Beyonce is a better entertainer than Michael Jackson. You can't do it. Stop it, cut it out.

Speaker 2: 22:57

But I think there's been some changes that seem in recent years just markedly different than I haven't seen before.

Speaker 2: 23:04

I think about rap music, for one. I remember when I was excited as an educator about rap music, because if I'm in class and I'm teaching about similes and metaphors and important devices, I can point to KRS-One, I can point to an LL Cool J, I can point to a Tupac and be like boom and make that relevant to the kids I was teaching, and not only the Black kids, the white kids too, because hip hop is a worldwide phenomenon, yeah, you know. And then nowadays, though, though, I listen to some of the music and I really don't hear, I can't understand. I hear a lot of mumbling, a mumble rap word, and when I hear some of the words I do hear, I'm like I can't say those in any class.

Speaker 2: 23:49

I can't, I can't use that and and and. There's no longer poetic devices in rap anymore that you can cling to as a teacher, because it's a bunch of people repeating the same thing and saying afterwards I don't know, I don't know who created the lyric, hey, hey, I don't know who created those lyrics, but uh yeah, yeah, that took a lot of of mental acuity to me it did it, did it, did I, I know, I know somewhere, and I think that's thank you.

Speaker 2: 24:20

When you hear rappers and and and entertainers of our era even talk about, they even say I don't know, I don't know what this is like yeah I know what we did. You know I am. I can imagine Chuck D, a public enemy, looking at this today stuff and saying, is this what I wrote? Fight the Power for. Is this what it was about?

Speaker 1: 24:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:40

Yeah, yeah. So these and I think it is affecting kids in a different way, because but it's not just the music, it's the whole. It's a. It's a. It's an evolution and everything changes. We have to get used to it. It's an evolution and everything changes, we have to get used to it. You know, don't get mad because we don't use card, catalog and microfiche anymore in the libraries. We don't need it, it's got Google. Don't get salty about it. It is what it is. Figure out a way. It's a tool, it's a tool. Figure out a way. Now we shouldn't have Google and Wikipedia writing our papers for us. That's right. Have Google and Wikipedia writing our papers for us, that's right. And we used to see all that all the time. I said you got this whole paragraph from Wikipedia, dude.

Speaker 1: 25:20

Oh yeah, and it's obvious.

Speaker 2: 25:23

Before there was AI, there was cut and paste Wikipedia. That's right. That was the first AI.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Yeah, it really was. Go out to Google University, know Google University and figure out what are we doing?

Speaker 2: 25:37

So those are the things that we have to get back to. It's very easy, because we have machines and technology that could do a lot of the groundwork for us, and God bless it, yeah, but we still have to be able to teach our kids to be able to do the groundwork for themselves, because here's the thing that technology is dependent upon right now, anyway electricity, power, solar. What have you? If it's a rainy day, if the power goes out, what are you going to do? So now you, you go to a mcdonald's and when the cash register is not working and they said it's, you know it's $10.15 and I give you $20.15 and say give me back even change.

Speaker 1: 26:24

You're asking too much.

Speaker 2: 26:25

Whoa I see kids have. I thought these kids would have an aneurysm one time.

Speaker 1: 26:32

I can see the hiccup happening in the brain visibly.

Speaker 2: 26:35

And I said you know, it's not even worth it. I'll tell you what the change is. Let me tell you what it is. And the kid believed and I was telling the truth. He's like oh, thank you, mister. Come on man. What are we doing? What are we doing?

Speaker 1: 26:56

If you are an organizational psychologist, an HR professional or just someone who wants to strengthen your listening skills, you should pick up a copy of Head, heart and Hands Listening today. This book explores the three listening modalities of head, heart and hands as active but largely unconscious lenses that inform the potency of our listening. It also includes a comprehensive listening assessment so you can improve listening in targeted ways. Get a copy of Head, heart and Hands Listening by clicking on the link in the show notes. I think that is probably one of the biggest concerns that I have with Probably one of the biggest concerns that I have with I'm about to say it kids today.

Speaker 1: 27:38

You know I would teach communication research and one of the fantastic opportunities that you have in a class like that is you get to pull from all kinds of different written texts and you know music, like you were just talking about. When you look at how lyrics were written, you know in the 80s, you know with rap versus what you see today. Communication research was one of those classes that I would about protest music you know and be able to show them the lyrics and then we would listen to the song and watch the videos and it would, you know, like you were saying, with Public Enemy or Rage Against the Machine. You know, in the 90s, after Rodney King, the Rodney King incident, you know all of those things and then to look for something recent you know, to challenge them, dig into it and find something of some meaning. What does it say?

Speaker 2: 28:44

You may be able to find J Cole. You may be able to find Kendrick Lamar. Outside of that, it's going to be tight.

Speaker 1: 28:51

Yeah, we ended up looking at Childish Gambino's this Is America, okay, and I think that was probably one of the first times some of those kids had been that had looked at lyrics and then the symbolism of the actual video itself and was in a position where they could talk about. What does this mean to me? What do you think it means? And then the different perspectives from that song, you know, and it was just such an incredibly impactful moment, I think, for some of them to be able to see. Wait a minute, there is an opportunity here to actually be able to say something important and you know I need to start listening up for this stuff.

Speaker 2: 29:40

Can I share with you a teachable moment that I used to do when I was a principal and assistant principal. Yeah, so at the end of the day, everybody knew that at the end of the day, when kids were at practice or kids were afterschool tutoring, whatever it was Mr Williams loves music, right, so it would be nothing to walk down the hallways and hear Al Green, steely Dan, doobie Brothers, the Spinners, the Temptations, whomever.

Speaker 1: 30:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:13

Playing out of my office and the best moments I had in terms of bonding and connecting with kids, when a kid would come by and say, oh, my dad loves that man, wow, okay. Or a kid would hear something that, as a Gen Xer, we thought was fantastic back when we were coming up and they would say, oh, who fantastic. Back when we were coming up and they would say, oh, who's that group? That's dope Like I know. Or even more, when they would play their songs and they'd tell me have you heard this one, mr Williams, you haven't heard this one yet.

Speaker 2: 30:48

I said I listened to it. I said you know that's not an original backbeat, right? You know it's not. That's not an original backbeat, right? James Brown, right? I said you know they sold that. They stole that whole loop from James Brown. What? No, listen to this.

Speaker 1: 31:07

Oh yeah, y'all aren't that original. That's right, that's right. Yeah, I already know. I already know that song. That's awesome. So what type of conversations have you had with the kids in the schools about the information that they take in from online? You know, because so much everything, everything that they're getting is online now, from not just listening to music and you know the shows that they're watching on Netflix and you know all of the things but even just the information they get, that things that are happening in the world.

Speaker 2: 31:39

You know If, if here's my thing I tell kids all the time we're coming to an era where we used to have news research, you know, referenced points, all of it. Now, a lot of it is opinion, and I said if there's no references, if there's no pointing back to where the people got this information from or how they learned this information in any form in the writing, take it for what it's worth. It might not be what you think it is, I said. Now, one thing about Wikipedia that can be good and constructive is you notice, at the bottom of every Wikipedia page, or most Wikipedia pages, they have articles they've read that can that fed this article bigger article.

Speaker 2: 32:22

Now, whenever you see a Wikipedia page that doesn't have that, it usually won't be on Wikipedia very long. It'll be taken off. And so that's my thing. Just look for the reference material, find out if this is this person's total idea, total intellectual property, or if it has been gleaned in part from someone else. As evidence of that, you can probably trust that, more so than just somebody just spouting off because we got a lot of that. Oh yeah, with the TikTok Plenty. Everybody's gotten a pain on everything. Everybody's gotten a pain on everything. That's one of the things that you know as a former professional actor and really I think people don't pay attention to everybody's a star now.

Speaker 1: 33:03

so nobody's a star. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody thinks they're a star, Right.

Speaker 2: 33:09

And you may be talking total nonsense, but if you can get enough people to watch and support and click and like the nonsense you're spewing, all of a sudden you become the authority, yeah, the expert.

Speaker 1: 33:20

That's the role we're living in and that's what the algorithm is going to support. It's going to keep shoving that to the top of the feed. Can I use an example of this?

Speaker 2: 33:28

Yes, please For adults and some of the people that are listening to us right now are watching us that our teachers are going to hate me for this yo. Can we just stop telling everybody how terrible education is? Yeah, yeah, look listen first of all, and once again I'm about to get in trouble, but I feel like this is a safe space. My bus is for some of the younger teachers, us old heads. The problems you're dealing with are like 20 and 30 years old.

Speaker 1: 34:00

Right yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:01

We were having these same discussions, many of them in faculty lounges and over cafeteria tables, years before you, even a gleam in your mama's eye. So here's the thing. We could sit here and lament the fact that kids can't read. Damn it. Teach them to read.

Speaker 1: 34:20

Right.

Speaker 2: 34:21

Right, yeah, I mean, find out where they find out where they are and help them get to where they need to be. Because here's what this is. This is Googleable. So I'm not just spouting off on this one. I got to follow my own advice. Newsflash folks, folks, 46% of all Americans, regardless of age, race, creed or color or orientation 46% of all Americans read on the sixth grade level or lower.

Speaker 1: 34:56

Our kids can't read because America refuses to Right. Yeah, yeah, that is horrendous. I remember when, when I first got into journalism and we were talking about when you write these articles. The goal was to write it at an eighth grade level, because that's where the majority of Americans were at the time.

Speaker 2: 35:17

That's gone down. Oh, yeah, yeah, isn't that something? Yeah, isn't that something. Listen, look at the. You saw the evolution happening. First you had the Washington Post back in the day, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the old Chicago Tribune, the old Boston Papers. You know you had to have a good hand on your shoulders and the ability to really read and comprehend to get through some of these facts. Right, and some people might say it's because they were trying to gatekeep information. But maybe they were trying to smarten you up Right and force you to meet that standard, okay, yeah. Then came USA Today Big pictures, Color, taking up more of the pages, bigger font. Okay, so am I reading a newspaper or I can't read a book right now? What are we doing right now? And then you go to 24 hour news CNN happened, yeah. Msnbc, yeah, fox. And those are all different sides of the same terrible.

Speaker 1: 36:09

Journalists became the celebrities.

Speaker 2: 36:11

I don't care what your political affiliation is. It really doesn't matter to me but if you're getting all your news from one of those, you're not getting the whole picture.

Speaker 1: 36:22

No, you're not. Yes, not Absolutely not I think that's one of the biggest dangers that I think a lot of the kids when they depend on social media and that, like I said earlier, that algorithm is going to continue to push that same drivel up to the top of your feed and if that's all, you're feeding your brain, of course.

Speaker 2: 36:41

I could tell you some of the you saw my Instagram some of the posts that have been the most vitriolic and kind of accusatory are the posts that have gone viral.

Speaker 1: 36:55

Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:56

The posts that talk about working together as a community, as parents, as teachers, as students. The posts that talk about what you get. The kids can't read. Let's help them to read. Stop crying about it, let's do some about it, right? The posts that talk about? You know, listen, we could make all these. Make all this hullabaloo about the new math that you want and people not being able to do you know they don't have. This is a new thing now, where kids don't have to be allowed to do. Apparently kids don't have to be able to do basic math in order to jump to the advanced classes. Stop that, y'all. How does that work? Multiply, subtract, divide, you know, and add on a basic level with numbers with three digits or higher.

Speaker 1: 37:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:44

It's going to be a problem for you when you get into algebra. It just is yeah. If you don't know that three times eight is 24, then you don't know that 24 equals X times three. You don't know that.

Speaker 2: 37:55

Right, that's just a letter to you at that point. That makes no sense. It makes no sense. It makes no sense. But you see it. You see it happening. You see people talk about this stuff. Yeah and so.

Speaker 2: 38:04

But when I said, when I, when I, when I go after certain folks in education, oh, 50, 000, 20, 000 likes, whatever. Yeah, but when I, when I talk about things about building relationships with students, I talk about the reason building relationships with students. When I talk about the reason why some of your kids act up is because they can't read and they're embarrassed, and it's easier to cut the monkey and mess your class up than it is to actually get into it and work with their deficits and maybe you can sat down with them and help them to understand. This is a safe space. I understand. I'm here to help you read. It's not to hurt you or embarrass you. Maybe you see the behaviors change. No one wants to talk about that. That's not sexy. Positivity is not attractive anymore and that's the worst thing that's happening, I think, the worst effect of social media.

Speaker 1: 38:54

To the detriment of everyone. Yes, I mean truly so. What would you say to a young person who's in college right now and they see what's happening in the school systems and you know we already have a teacher deficit I mean just about in every state, probably by now? Sure, there's a teacher deficit and it just does not seem like that's the career path that a lot of people are choosing to follow. What would you say to a young person who's thinking that they might want to get into education but because they're seeing everything that's going on, they might be a little afraid to get into it?

Speaker 2: 39:33

Well, I'd be honest with them Is this something that you really want to do? Do you feel this is a calling or a passion? Or is this just something to do while you're waiting for your dream job to come along?

Speaker 1: 39:44

OK.

Speaker 2: 39:44

Mm. Hmm, that's you know, that's what you're thinking. Teaching might not be for you. Right rhetoric and the disrespect of three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 year olds it's going to just totally crush your psyche as a, as a grown human being that pays bills and has a family and it's contributing to society. Tough enough, it might not be you Right If the whole idea is, if you are more concerned with blind compliance than student connection, you're going to have a tough time teaching, no matter what demographic, no matter what school and no matter how much your admin does or does not support you.

Speaker 2: 40:31

And can we please? I have been a classroom teacher and I have been a principal. Can we please stop? You don't see principals on social media dogging teachers out. No, you don't see it. First of all, we ain't got time. You're doing the job. We try to keep things rolling on a certain and I can say listen, I understand. I grew as an administrator the type of administrator I was at the end of my career at the beginning. Different as an administrator, the type of administrator I was at the end of my career at the beginning. Different as it should. You mature, you grow, you see things, you begin to realize what supports teachers need and how some things that people tell you are important are not as important as what the teacher needs. Okay, as you grow, you get better at that and hopefully, as you get better than that, you have a longer and longer career. I'm proud to say I was in building level administration for 17 years. It's a long time, yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:24

Yeah, are you seeing more and more teachers getting out there on social media and kind of airing the dirty laundry? You're not. You're not seeing it, I'm seeing it. But like how much worse has it gotten, you know, over time?

Speaker 2: 41:41

Okay, now, granted, now people, when I say this, they say well, jean, you're, you're not in school buildings anymore on a daily basis. I said yeah, I just, I just left in June 2023. It wasn't 15 years ago.

Speaker 1: 41:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:52

Well, stop that.

Speaker 1: 41:53

That's right.

Speaker 2: 41:54

June 2023.

Speaker 1: 41:56

Not even a year ago, right.

Speaker 2: 41:57

June 2023. Not even a year ago. Right, it may have become more severe and more frequent and we may be more exposed to it because of social media. Yes, and every time you turn on the X or Twitter feed, there's a channel that says student fights, right, and all these kids are sitting there recording fights and that's all you see running into the loop 24 hours a day. Yeah, you begin to think that now it may have become more frequent and I'm sure and I'm sure covid didn't help, and we have a whole discussion about what covid did or didn't do to the psyche of teachers and students and parents. Yeah, but, like I said, these aren't new. I made a post which basically says this Before COVID was a thing, I was swung on by a student.

Speaker 2: 42:41

You thing, yeah, try to hit me. Now, luckily for him, it didn't work because he didn't even sorry about that one. I was young and in shape then. That wouldn't have gone over him. That wouldn't have gone over him. But you know, before COVID was a thing I once had. A little mills will tell me he's gonna kick me in my testicles, and testicles wasn't a word he used. Oh, yeah, yeah yeah before.

Speaker 2: 43:07

Listen, the year before we got into covid heavily, I had a parent come to my office and I was an af-American parent and I was disciplining her son. She told me well, you don't understand what black boys go through. I said, ma'am, when black boys were truly going through something and it was actually advocated by the government state, I was little. Then, yeah, you talk to a person that was born the year after dr king got shot. Like who are you talking to? Yeah, yeah, okay, having that same parent disrespected my assistant principal I don't even use the word she used to use for her and told me to I won't tell you what she told me to do to a specific part of her anatomy and it wasn't. It wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't the posterior, it was another area in other regions and the language. This was before we ever decided to social distance or go home for six months or whatever any system did for COVID. This has been happening for a long time.

Speaker 2: 44:20

I have these same discussions with my teachers and my colleagues when I was in the classroom back in 1997, 2001, 2010. Yo, let's stop. Let's stop, and we get our strengths from trying to figure out a way to work with each other. Is every administrator a good one? No. Is every teacher a good one? No. Is every doctor the best one? Is every fireman the best one? Some people do just enough to keep the check flowing. That's right. That's right. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Let's figure out a way to work together as parents, as teachers, as administrators, for the betterment of the kid.

Speaker 2: 45:12

One of the things that some of my teachers used to get mad at me about is is this about what's best for the kid or about what's easy for us? What's easy Right? Let's ask that question. And if we're and if we're now, I'm not saying that we should be not concerned what's good for teachers, but if we're more concerned about what's easy for the teacher than what's best for the child, which is why we were there, listen, we have a teacher shortage now. If, if, if, you know, if we suspended every bad kid in America for every time I did something and totally criminalized it, there'd be no kids in the school, who would you teach then? How'd you get your money then? Yeah, now, like I said, I gotta be careful, because there's a whole bunch of teachers watching right now, probably wanna bash me over the head with a cast iron skillet. But Well, I you know, I look at all sides of a thing, yeah, yeah, administrators have got to get ourselves together, no doubt.

Speaker 1: 46:05

Well, and I do think there's a level of, you know, well so-and-so, like you said. You know, are all teachers good? No, are all administrators good? No, I mean there are going to be some that are better than others. But at the end of the day, if that's what you're consistently looking at, if that's what you're using to make your decisions on how involved you're going to be, I mean, there's always going to be a reason to not do better, well so-and-so.

Speaker 1: 46:33

And I see that on a systemic level. You know talking about with media literacy and trying to implement media literacy, more media literacy, education in the schools. You know, like at the legislative level, there, I'm surprised at how much pushback there is because there's this fear of, there's this fear of well, who's teaching the media literacy? You know, you've got some teachers that are going to politicize it and you've got other teachers that are going to politicize it and, at the end of the day, yeah, you're right, you may have some teachers who will do that, but is that a reason to keep the kids away from learning how to assess the information and critically think about the information that they have coming at them?

Speaker 2: 47:24

And what if you had a person that had an angle or an agenda in teaching that here's a school leader. This is what we hope to do to build a type of climate where we have independent thinking students who will say we have independent thinking students who will say guess what?

Speaker 1: 47:40

Yeah, I got a question for you In a fuck away.

Speaker 2: 47:43

Yes, I hear what you're saying, but this will lead me to believe something else. What's your thoughts on that? That's?

Speaker 1: 47:49

right.

Speaker 2: 47:49

I'm reminded of a time when my daughter was in an AP history class and the teacher was talking about the 50s and he said these were the happy days. Everybody was having a good time, Everybody who was one of two, a student in the school where I was when I was assistant principal. He said you know, I had to catch myself, Mr Williams. I never. I just I talked too quickly and I didn't realize. I said, yeah, it's easy and you're my teacher.

Speaker 1: 48:31

That's right. That's right. But I'm sure the way she went about that.

Speaker 2: 48:36

Right, right, it wasn't. It wasn't confrontational, it was just very much. Sir, I hear what you're saying, but when I think of dot, dot and dot, that might tell me that some people might not view it as happy as how it's being presented right now in this class.

Speaker 1: 48:49

That's right. I think there's too much of when we talk about different topics, and especially getting into the classroom, if we approach it from the mindset that, oh, it's going to be a gotcha moment or it's going to be a hey, you know, I'm going to one up you on this. That's not in the spirit of learning.

Speaker 2: 49:11

It's all about balance. Yes, I think one of the major things that teachers are talking about now is lesson plans and a lot of just a big movement. Teachers say why are you writing lesson plans? Whether it's stupid. We shouldn't have to do it. The uh principals don't check them anyway. And and to them I say, yeah, you're probably right, but here's the thing if you fail to plan, planning to fail, that's right now. Whether or not you turn them in every week or every day or what have you, you should. I should be able to look somewhere and see if there's some type of structure. It could be on a piece of paper, whatever it is. I'm going to do this in general and that for this many minutes in the class, boom, when I watch your lesson, I should be able to see the components of a lesson. I shouldn't have to look at the paper. I shouldn't say, oh, this is the guided practice I got you.

Speaker 1: 50:01

Right.

Speaker 2: 50:01

Now they're helping each other on their own. This is the independent practice. Okay, okay, they're debunking that with exit answers. Okay, this is the conclusion to the lesson. Got it? Didn't have to look at a piece of paper. I can just tell by the transitions and how the class runs smoothly. This teacher has a plan for their kids.

Speaker 1: 50:22

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Speaker 2: 51:00

It's all about balance. I think a lot of teachers do get a bum rap and teachers do have to do more now than they've ever had to do. Teachers have to be social workers and they have to be first responders. If a child gets shot, who are the ones that protect? The kids Got to know what to do Before the SROs and the law enforcement gets there. It's the teachers and the principals on the front line. They're the first first responders.

Speaker 1: 51:29

Right, right. And then, even before it gets to that point, you have, you know, some kids that are screaming for help. Right, you know that one kid that was in the news, I think both his parents just got jail time or they got sent to prison for neglect. Sure, parents just got jail time or they got sent to prison for neglect. You know willful neglect, because the kid is writing all over his notebooks and texting with his mom. And you know like I'm? I'm seeing blood and you know there's voices in my head and it's like you gotta be able to.

Speaker 2: 51:58

And teachers have to be vigilant about that too, because you know, if you happen to walk by and see little Johnny doodlingling and all he's doing is guns and pictures of people getting their head going off, hey, let me look, johnny, you're not gonna do it out to the counselor and figure this out right. You can't be drawing that in class. We're not. You know, this is 2023, it's not 1963. Everything needs to be looked at. So teachers are forced to be hyper vigilant, and that's a lot on teachers. I totally understand that, but I think sometimes teachers want understanding. They're not willing to give reciprocally to their administrators.

Speaker 2: 52:34

Okay, so, okay. Yes, johnny called you a b in the middle of class. So you know johnny's not coming back to your class. I want to spend them for at least several days. So he's going to come back to my class In five or ten days. He might Well. No, I want him out forever. I said whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, have you read the code of conduct? Do you know that? Are you reading educational laws? Please make demands. Don't think that just because a principal doesn't do what you think he should do or what you want him or her to do, that they don't support you. Just like you have protocols to follow, admins have protocols to follow.

Speaker 1: 53:13

Right, right. And I think, ultimately, the question is what are we going to be able to do to help him understand why that was the wrong choice to make, why it's not okay to act that?

Speaker 2: 53:26

way, and if we get to the point where we realize that that's not working, then you know, at that point then maybe there does need to be an alternate placement for him, or maybe going to school in a regular situation is not what's going to work for that kid. Okay, Well then, but we've gone through the processes.

Speaker 1: 53:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:45

And so now, when mom or dad come back with why is you? And I'm going to say no, there's no, there's no lawsuit, there's no, there's no that we followed A, b and C. We did due process. We gave the child opportunities. It didn't work and we're not going to. I'm not going to allow my teachers to be disrespected or feel physically threatened. If I can help it.

Speaker 1: 54:06

I'm not going to allow that. Yeah, yeah. So schools are starting to wrap up. You know it's getting toward the end of the school year where March and you know you got seniors that are just senioritis. They're not even paying attention in the classroom right now because they're getting ready to graduate and leave school. What are some things that you would advise teachers, do parents, do you know, as they're wrapping up their school year, what are some of those lessons learned that they could probably think about over the summer as they're working on those lesson plans and thinking about? You know they're going to get a new crop of students in a new crop of parents now Is there a way to start it off a little more effectively than others?

Speaker 2: 54:48

Well, what we used to do is have a transition meeting every year. We have a meeting for the middle schoolers coming up to high school and becoming ninth graders, and we have a meeting the next day for ninth going into 10th, 10th going into 11th, 11th going into 12th. Hey, these are the things, this is the code of conduct, these are the negotiables and the non-negotiables. These are our goals, academic goals for you for the year. This is what we expect, mom and dad. This is how you can help us. We would talk about the whole idea of cyber bullying and all of that.

Speaker 2: 55:18

My main point was to all my students, I said when it comes to the whole cyber thing and you're posting things about each other, if it ain't positive, what are we doing it for? Like, what's the point of this? Because all that's going to happen is somebody's going to get upset, and you all are not emotionally equipped right now. In your immature state, that's all it does is this in your immature state, you haven't gone through enough, and maybe you have gone through some very tough experiences, but you haven't grown enough in terms of your emotional intelligence to be able to handle everything the way it should be handled. So let the grown folks do that and the best way to keep that from being a problem is if you can't say anything nice about somebody, say nothing, right. But that's hard in a society where we reward people who dog other people out, reward people who dog other people out, and as adults we can't sit.

Speaker 2: 56:06

We can't sit there as adults, adult parents, doing dumb stuff like attacking umpires at league baseball games oh yeah, yeah, yeah, or, or, or, you know, or, or punching the principal in the face because he's suspended your kid for five days, or something you said that you don't believe should happen, and he's.

Speaker 2: 56:24

Nothing's happened to me, but've seen, I've heard these stories yeah, yeah, you know, and you see it in the news through the news, or harassing a teacher day in and day out with phone calls and problems, just because the teacher has standards in his or her class like stop, yeah, and then you want, and then you want your child to to act in a certain way. They're feeding off of the clues that you are providing for them, and so we have to really think about what we're doing. That's why it's so important. The teacher is not the enemy, principal is not the enemy. Our entire job is to work together to get your kids to graduate.

Speaker 2: 57:04

I used to tell my seniors this story and they would always laugh. I'd tell them privately, though I wouldn't tell them in public. I'd get them in the school meeting, the senior class meeting, after you finished everything and talking about the well I expect for graduation, the protocols, and you're going to wear this color robe and we're not going to have sneakers on, we're going to have dress shoes and we'm going to have dress pants and you can have little messages on your cap. That's fine, but it better not be anything silly, because what you're going to do is you're going to take a picture of it beforehand. You're going to email it to me, and I used to do this.

Speaker 2: 57:32

Approve individually everything you wore in your cap. I said and if you get to the school that day and I see something on your hat that wasn't on your hat when you sent it to me, you either get a new hat or you're not walking. Or you're not walking, what are we doing? And I got plenty of spare ones in the office, so we can take that one off and slap that one on, that's right but somebody's going to try it Somebody's going to.

Speaker 2: 57:56

You know what? My last school, to their credit, they really tried. All kids have issues and they weren't perfect. They weren't perfect students and I wasn't a perfect administrator, but I got to give, especially the last five years I spent as a principal credit Mike, mike Bids really did try and the one thing I loved about them the most was I used to tease them. I said y'all really know how to put on the dog when visitors come.

Speaker 1: 58:22

You don't act the way you act when it's just us in the building. So that's how there's an awareness.

Speaker 2: 58:27

But every time a visitor came they had nothing but positive things to say about our students and our teachers and how they related. And this student came to the door and saw I was lost and asked me where I was going and walked me to the class. What are you doing? What are you guys, what are you teachers doing out here? Mr William, this is really a great place. And I said who did that? I think about mine, about what was in this discipline file. I said, oh well, that's what we try to impart. And then my mom was like, wow, something stuck, something stuck.

Speaker 2: 59:02

When I was a principal I used to say morning announcements. At the end of every morning announcement I would say I would steal a line from legendary comedian George Wallace and I would say Mr Williams loves you and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. And all the kids used to tease me. I said Mr Williams, you're so corny, you're so corny. I said, yeah, do you do that? I said because, believe it or not, there's some kids in this building, heck, and some teachers in this building that go through an entire week, an entire month and sometimes many months without hearing the words I love you coming out of somebody's mouth towards them. I want them to feel what that feels like.

Speaker 1: 59:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:38

Whether they believe I love them or not. They can say they heard someone say that to them. Yeah, and the crazy part about it was the kids would always tease me about it, but then I would forget to do it.

Speaker 1: 59:50

Whoa, whoa they want it. They want it we can't.

Speaker 2: 59:54

Announcements are still going. Don't do that. Yeah, you know, it's just. It's just, it's just very important. It's just very important to to look at, to look honestly, honestly at what our situation is. It's not as good as it once was and we need to improve it. We all know that. Let's roll up our sleeves and try to improve it. Instead of spending the time and energy we spend blasting it, we could actually be doing something about it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:16

Yeah, yeah, I just want to take a moment to underscore. You said something incredibly powerful and I do not want to let it slide because we're starting to run short on time and I just think it's so incredibly important, whether you're thinking about the students, you're thinking about teachers, you're thinking about parents, the administrators. Some people go all week without hearing something positive or the I love you, I care about you, I'm in your corner, I want to see you succeed. You know I'm, I'm here to make sure that that happens. Every single one of us as basic human beings.

Speaker 1: 1:00:56

I think it's so easy for us to forget because we get so focused on the politics of things, looking at it in terms of are we on individual teams, looking at the things that seem insurmountable? You know a lot of these challenges that we have and it just really sets us up for this us versus them mentality and, at the end of the day, I just love that you shared that story that you know sometimes teachers go a week without hearing it, students go a week without hearing it. You know, every single one of us. At the end of the day, I think that is probably the most powerful thing to remember in any situation that we're looking at, especially in the schools. I'm so glad that you did that with your kids. That's awesome in the schools.

Speaker 2: 1:01:45

I'm so glad that you did that with your kids. That's awesome. Yeah, that was just that became my thing and I loved it when I heard it. I want the kids to know I'm going to discipline you. We're going to have tough times, but I always like each other. It's never personal, that's right, but this is what has to be done in order to create a society where we have people that would want to live in it, and so you know. Last little bit about when I was a principal. The last year I was a principal, people were worried about senior prank and they didn't want anything crazy going on because senior prank can be dangerous People don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:02:15

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:02:17

Well, here's a principal hack Get with your student government president and create a prank on yourself. Oh, and everybody's so excited about, we get to dog the principal out for five or six minutes. They won't worry about trying to do something to the whole school. So my last year as a principal I said listen, here's what you're going to do. I said tell the, tell the kids that you all are going to throw water balloons at mr williams the last day of school. She said oh my god, they would love to that. You all are going to throw water balloons at Mr Williams the last day of school. She said oh my God, they would love to do that. Are you going to go for that?

Speaker 1: 1:02:50

You're like I know they would.

Speaker 2: 1:02:51

Here's what you're going to do. You're going to gather all the seniors out in the front yard. You're going to tell them. You know, listen, we're tired of this. We're getting up out of here and Mr Williams is going to. You know, usually counsel us about trying to leave early or what have you. We're not taking this anymore. It's been a week. We're out of here in a week. We don't even know how we feel about some of the things he does.

Speaker 2: 1:03:15

And so I said can you do that? I said I want you and the kids to start a big ruckus in the front of the building. I told my superintendent. I said you're going to see something that you're not going to like. Just bear with it. I know what I'm doing and when I'm going to come out there and I'm going to blast y'all out, I'm going to just go. What are you kids doing out here? How many times do I have to tell you? If I tell you one more time, people won't be walking, everybody will be going home. And when I'm getting the tirade blasting with water balloons, Please tell me there's a video of this somewhere.

Speaker 2: 1:03:53

I don't know. There's a picture. That'd be great. But the kids loved it. And then, after they threw it, I said, oh, you guys got me. And he's like yeah, you got me, mr Williams, you thought you had it under control. We got you today and they loved that. Oh, you guys got me. And he's like yeah, you got you, mr Williams, you thought you had it under control, we got you today and they loved that. Oh, yeah, they loved that Because and I didn't get mad I said, well, you know, hey, it's the last day, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. And we laughed and we hugged each other and the whole thing, and it was just. You know, some people didn't understand it, some of the teachers didn't like it. I didn't care because when I thought, you know, sometimes, if you don't want something to happen in the building, I'm trying to avoid something where the attention is taken off of you.

Speaker 1: 1:04:33

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:04:34

Me.

Speaker 1: 1:04:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:04:36

Oh, you know, you created a core memory for them. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:43

You got to be able to laugh and just enjoy yourselves, you know, I mean, that's one of the best things to be able to create a sense of community, just laugh and have a good time together.

Speaker 2: 1:04:54

What happened to the teachers that could laugh at themselves?

Speaker 1: 1:04:57

Yes, yeah, yeah. You can't do that. Don't take yourself too seriously what?

Speaker 2: 1:05:01

We're only here for a very short time. Don't take yourself too seriously what. We're only here for a very short time, that's right. Come on Listen. Everything is not, you know. Def CON 9.

Speaker 1: 1:05:10

It's not. Life is hard enough.

Speaker 2: 1:05:13

Right.

Speaker 1: 1:05:15

It is, it really is. Well, Jean, we have gone for over an hour now and I mean we got to some things we hadn't even had a chance to talk about, so you're going to have to come back on the show. I want to yeah, I just absolutely love this conversation because I still want to talk about the whole SAT verbal prep guide. We didn't even get close to that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:35

Oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 1:05:36

No, no, no, it's totally my fault, because there's just so much to this conversation. There it is, folks Grounded in the word Grounded, in the word there you go, there you go. So that's what I think. I want to talk with you about that next time. I want to do a deep dive into that particular topic right there, a deep dive into the data. Yeah, deep dive.

Speaker 2: 1:05:57

That's principle. Speak, that's right. You get excited, now We'll just nerd out.

Speaker 1: 1:06:03

Oh, you get excited now, we'll just nerd out. Well, sir, thanks again once more for just spending your time with us and being able to share some of your expertise and your experience, and this has been a real treat for me. I have really enjoyed this, and I know the listeners have enjoyed it as well, so we're definitely going to have have you back.

Speaker 2: 1:06:25

Good, great yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:27

Now, before we end everything, though, tell our listeners what are some ways that they can get in touch with you if they want to wwweugenewilliamsjrcom.

Speaker 2: 1:06:48

Email me at support at eugenewilliamsjrcom. You can see me on Instagram at E-U-G-W-I-L-L-J-R. You can catch me on TikTok at Eugene Williams Jr. So I'm in a variety of places and you can Google me. I'm Googleable Googleable and you'll see about some of the things I did when I was a young person and hear about my mom and my dad and folks like that. But thank you, Jen, for this wonderful opportunity and I really would like to come back again and as many other times as you'd like to have me, because I think you're doing a really great service for your listeners.

Speaker 1: 1:07:16

Thank you so much. Absolutely, yeah, we will get right on that. We're just going to go ahead and pick another day on the schedule. All right, everybody. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your day and y'all take care. We'll see you next time. Bye, thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media or leave a rating and a review.