Mastering Modern Manners with Kristi Spencer

Can politeness truly transform your life? Find out as Jennifer Furlong sits down with Kristi Spencer, founder of the Polite Company and a certified etiquette trainer. Kristi and Jen dive into the growing issue of incivility in today's fast-paced world and its ripple effects on our mental health, productivity, and personal relationships. Discover how simple politeness can lead to more harmonious interactions and a thriving society, without sacrificing assertiveness or the ability to set clear boundaries.

Kristi's journey from a demanding 25-year career in journalism to the world of etiquette training offers an insightful backdrop to our conversation. Learn how the constant pressure and negative news cycle in journalism contributed to societal rudeness and her eventual burnout. Kristi's decision to study at the Emily Post Institute showcases the powerful shift from skepticism to compassion and the profound impact that assuming good intentions can have on communication and civility.

In our discussion, Kristi shares valuable strategies for navigating modern etiquette challenges, such as handling public rudeness and maintaining device-free family meals to foster meaningful connections. She introduces the CARE method for politely setting boundaries and highlights the importance of authenticity and preparation when dealing with interruptions. Tune in for practical advice on enhancing your communication skills and creating a more respectful and connected world.

Contact Kristi at https://www.thepolitecompany.com/

Chapters

• 0:00 The Importance of Politeness and Communication
• 15:54 Navigating Career Changes and Civility
• 24:21 Navigating Etiquette in Modern Times
• 38:58 Encouraging Etiquette Through Family Meals
• 48:11 Setting Boundaries With Politeness

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

In today's episode, we are diving into a topic that is incredibly relevant in our current climate. Politeness and it's a topic, I will admit can be a huge challenge for me at times Well, probably more often than I care to admit which is why I'm thrilled to be joined by Christy Spencer, who is an expert in politeness. We're going to discuss why this seemingly simple concept is more crucial than ever. According to the 2019 Civility in America survey conducted by Weber Shanwick, 93% of Americans identify incivility as a major problem and 68% believe it has reached crisis levels. Now, that was five years ago, and I think we could probably all agree that those numbers might be slightly elevated now. This decline in civility not only affects our personal interactions, but also has significant implications for our mental health, our productivity and overall well-being. In our conversation, christy sheds light on how practicing politeness can enhance our daily interactions, improve relationships and create a more harmonious society. We also discuss how being polite is often misunderstood as being passive or overly submissive, but politeness and assertiveness can coexist. It doesn't mean being a doormat. As a matter of fact, it's important to set boundaries and say no when necessary, but it can be done in a way that is respectful and kind. Ultimately, politeness is about balance. It's about being kind and respectful to others while also being true to yourself. Keep listening if you want to learn practical tips that will help you do just that.

Speaker 1: 2:13

Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast, where we communicate about how we communicate. So today we're going to talk a little bit about politeness and etiquette and rudeness and kids today All of those things. How have things changed in our society over time? And I'm really excited about my next guest because she is an expert in this field. But I'm doubly excited about this guest because she had her start her career started as a journalist, and so we're going to kind of meld all of this together. Y'all know with me, having a journalism background and being a media analyst for the past several years, I've been really concerned about how the hyper-partisan nature of the news has had a negative impact on us and how we communicate with one another. I mean, it's only natural, right, whatever we consume, it's going to have an impact on how we perceive the world around us and how we interact with others around us based on those perceptions. So I asked Christy to be on the show today because we're going to have a fantastic conversation about all of those things.

Speaker 1: 3:28

Now let me do a quick introduction and then I'm going to ask Christy to expand on that. So y'all, you know, get out your notebooks and take some good notes, because I know we're going to learn a lot about some of the things that we maybe have lost in our society and we may not want to admit it. But you know, some of us could probably do with some, I guess, some practice in this area. I know I can. I'll deal with some practice, but first let me do the introduction and then we'll get started with the conversation with Christy.

Speaker 1: 4:01

If you're not familiar with Christy Spencer, she is founder of the Polite Company and with the Polite Company it's based on the principles of consideration, respect and honesty. That's going to be it. Let's put a pin in that, because I want to talk about honesty as well. As you know, how can we be kind and honest at the same time? She's a certified etiquette trainer and graduate of the Emily Post Institute. She has 25 years of experience as a journalist and businesswoman, uniquely qualifying her to deliver the message that good manners lead to successful personal and professional relationships. I 1000% agree with that, but y'all know I do. Christy, thank you so much for being on the show and welcome.

Speaker 2: 4:46

Well, thank you so much. I'm so excited to talk with you today.

Speaker 1: 4:49

Yeah this is going to be a lot of fun. So that was the really quick version of your bio, not anywhere near enough to understand where you began in this business, your experience as a journalist. Do you mind just taking us back to? How did you decide to get into journalism first, and then how did that actually transfer over to what you're doing today?

Speaker 2: 5:17

So I grew up and my the person that I admired the most was Connie Chung, and I don't know why in the world. I thought that I could be Connie Chung when I grew up, but she was somebody that I idolized, and so having that role model, having a family that sat down and watched TV every evening and watched the news together, was something that was just ingrained in me, and so when I was in high school, I took a class on being a radio DJ, and it was the first time that I had somebody say you know, you're pretty good at this, you might want to look into it. And that's all it took for me to decide that I wanted to go ahead. I majored in broadcast journalism, graduated from the University of Kansas, and then started my career in a nearby station in Topeka, kansas, and then went from there to another station, which is not uncommon for people to do. What isn't common for people to do is to then stay there for 20 some years.

Speaker 2: 6:16

Usually, especially in television journalism, we're staying for two years in one place and moving on, and moving on, and I was a news director, and so I was hiring people for those positions and I thought why do I need to leave, because everything is always changing around me, and so I really did have the heart of a teacher and really enjoyed working in local news specifically, and that was really something that I love to do, mainly because it is less partisan and we can reflect our community without necessarily really interjecting a whole lot of our opinions. Of course, we can't say we're never going to interject, that that's where we come from. We all come from a different place in life, but there was really not the pressure to have an agenda when we're talking about local news and our communities.

Speaker 1: 7:12

That is such a huge piece right there with the local news. You're so right it does tend to be, I know, with looking at news and rating it for reliability and bias. The local news does tend to be a little higher on the reliability scale and definitely more centered as far as the bias is concerned. Do you have a lot of friends who are still in the journalism field and have they moved out into more of the national news system? Have you heard a lot from them about the pressure that exists in the media ecosystem now to try to get you know? Yeah, let's get the clicks.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Right, there is a huge amount of pressure, and there always has been, and regardless of social media, that's a whole new thing. But we've always been deadline driven, and so it takes a certain kind of person that can live on a deadline like that, and not only live on it but thrive on it, and so it really does take a competitive person. It does take somebody that can, you know, dissociate themselves from the events a little bit, because you might, you know, start out at an announcement of a new business and then you end up at a crash scene or a fire or you know something horrific like that. So I don't know that people, you know, people kind of make fun of local news and we kind of it's the butt of some jokes, but really there are some amazing people that these are not people that get picked up by limos and there is no hair and makeup and somebody picking out their wardrobe. It is not nearly as glamorous as it might seem to other people. It's really, really hard work.

Speaker 1: 8:51

I think that's probably one of the main reasons the integrity behind local news has been able to be so steady in that way, when you think about it, you're not worried about being the celebrity.

Speaker 1: 9:07

Think about it, you're not worried about being the celebrity, you're not worrying about winning over, you know, or advocating for a certain position. I find that when I'm watching the news or I'm listening to the news, whenever I get an inkling that someone is beginning to advocate for a particular position, I find myself backing away from it, because I immediately know there's got to be some type of an agenda behind this, because there's too much opinion being shared with this and not enough of. Okay, just give me the fact report, you know. Just let me know what happened with this and I think also with local news, because there is such a quick turnaround with the different segments. Right, you've got a couple of minutes to cover what's going on with this, and so we need to let you know what's going on, and there's not a whole lot of time to begin expanding on what you think may or may not be happening or why it's important and what might come next.

Speaker 2: 10:03

Yeah, and you have to be even more quick than you used to be able to. So now you know we're talking a 15-second story. How in-depth can you get in 15 seconds? But that is kind of the attention span that we're working with. Television has the advantage of having the visual aspect as well, so that certainly helps. That can also be a barrier sometimes, because sometimes we don't hear from certain people because they weren't able to appear on camera.

Speaker 2: 10:31

Covid really did change that for many stations, because it was no longer so important to be right in front of somebody else with a camera in their face to be able to get that interview. Being able to see people through computer screens became so much more normal, and I think that that is one of the great things. And COVID didn't bring many great things, but that's one thing that it did bring is that we don't have to always go with the most available person that makes themselves available to us. We can go with the person who's best for the story, as long as they have some way to get their picture up on the Internet. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:07

Do you have an opportunity to talk to younger people who are either thinking about going into journalism or maybe they're in college right now and they've already declared journalism major. They know this is what they want to do for their career path. They know this is what they want to do for their career path. Do you have an opportunity to talk to younger people about the field of journalism and the ethics that are so important within journalism?

Speaker 2: 11:32

You know, that is one thing that I really prided our station for having the ethics. We had a manual where we kind of went through scenarios and what we would do in different cases. I think that that is something that journalism students definitely do learn now. Now, when I speak to college students, which are my favorite audience to speak to, I'm talking about etiquette, whether that's social media etiquette or dining etiquette or trying to kind of help them shine in social situations. So I'm not really concentrating on the journalism as much as I used to, although just with you today, you know the opportunity to speak about it. I always take advantage of that because it was my first love.

Speaker 1: 12:15

Yeah, and it permeates so much and, like I was saying earlier, we may not even necessarily realize it, but the information that we are consuming and the channels through which we consume this information, the different organizations that we pay attention to it, can't help but to have an impact on how we're perceiving not only that topic that we're reading about, but now it's impacting how we perceive other people, based on the things that we think they're reading. Now. Know, now it's not enough to okay, I'm going to disagree with you on that, but oh, you pay attention to that news station, so I immediately know you don't know what you're talking about, right? Yes, it seems like it has gotten way worse over time. Have you integrated any of that within your etiquette training? Do you find that as you're scrolling through the news or as you're scrolling through social media, you find, oh man, this is an excellent example. I need to use this next time I talk to somebody about etiquette and politeness.

Speaker 2: 13:21

Yes, I'm a fan of Google Alert alerts, so anything that comes up etiquette or something like that that I'm always sharing with people. I just shared with clients today a new study that 60% of companies are going to be sending their employees to etiquette training this year, which I'm like that's the best news that I've heard all year, for sure, but I think that that awareness is is important, but it's also important to think that we're more fragmented than we have ever been. Like you said, if you identify with one news station, then that is something that people make a lot of assumptions about you just for what you say. Oh, I saw this on such and such. Again, of course, people think, oh, you're watching this or that, or you're listening to this or that, and I think that listening to anything or watching anything or reading anything too much, or making that the center of your conversations is not a good look for your social skills or your etiquette, either one.

Speaker 1: 14:22

So take me through. You had this amazing career in journalism. You were happy with where you were and you embedded in the community, I'm sure, and just it seemed like it was a really fantastic job that you were able to have with that career path that you had developed at the local news station that you had developed at the local news station. Are you tired of engaging in debates that quickly escalate into personal attacks and animosity? Do you long for a world where diverse thoughts are respected and celebrated even in the face of strong disagreements? Have you ever wondered how to have a respectful and productive conversation on complex and sensitive topics such as politics, religion or social issues without causing offense or damaging relationships with your friends and family?

Speaker 1: 15:25

Differently from you by Philip Blackett is a powerful guidebook that empowers readers like you to engage in thoughtful and respectful debate, even in the midst of polarizing conversations. Get your copy of Disagree Without Disrespect today at communication247.com forward slash podcast. That's wwwcommunication247.com forward slash podcast. Communication247.com forward slash podcast. How did you make the decision, or even why did you make the decision, to transition out of journalism and then go after this new career path in teaching others about etiquette and all of those things?

Speaker 2: 16:03

You know, it's like so many stories. We all evaluated our lives during COVID and we had to make a decision. Is, you know, is this way that I'm making my living the way that I want to live my life? And for me, 25 years was a long time to live that life and to really, regardless of the positivity that you would try to bring to it, it's very difficult to do that in journalism. For decades it gets to you honestly, burnout for journalism is incredibly high, you know. Maybe you know four to five years is, you know, a typical lifespan For a news director.

Speaker 2: 16:43

The position that I had, two years, was the norm. For how long somebody would stay in that position? Just because, again, we talked about the deadlines. We're talking about, you know, we're going through tornadoes, fires, you know really horrible things that happen to children and we're living that, and along with the deadlines there's the long hours and so that kind of all accumulated and what journalism did for me and what local news did for me in those decades was amazing.

Speaker 2: 17:12

But I decided that I was going to fulfill a dream and take an etiquette class from the Emily Post Institute, which really, I mean you look at etiquette and you look at a newsroom and these are two different universes for sure and I decided I liked universe B better and to be able to spend the rest of my working life and career helping people, and it really is similar to what I did with reporters and anchors. We would try to make them appear as professional as possible, help them communicate a message, help them be trustworthy and reliable, and that translates really well to everyone else in the universe who is trying to build a brand for themselves and who want to look at leadership through those consideration, respect and honesty values.

Speaker 1: 18:09

Yeah, so you had mentioned it being like night and day the etiquette in the newsroom versus what you were learning when you went to the Emily Post Institute. What were some of those? I don't know if you would call them bad habits, but what were some of those things that you realized? Maybe this okay, I'm going to have to shift this now I've. We don't want to have gullible journalists that'll fall for anything, but it's also important to assume good intentions of people as opposed to they're up to something.

Speaker 2: 18:53

So that was a big switch for me. I think there were. There were so many things that it was just really just being able to kind of dig in and relish that positivity. When I was being my reporter self and I was investigating different programs and what I wanted to maybe invest in, and I talked to people, my biggest revelation was that everyone was so nice that I talked to. Now, as a journalist, you might call 100 people in a day and you might find two nice ones who are going to treat you nicely. So that was definitely a switch for me and I thought, oh my gosh, they're so nice. And then I thought, well, that's the deal, that's why we're here, that's what this job gets to do agree with people and decline invitations and those kinds of things.

Speaker 1: 19:45

But really it is rooted in great positive just all the good things Right and not making that assumption that there's some nefarious purpose behind whatever the decision is that somebody's making. I never thought about that before. That is so true. I do tend to be more of a critical listener, critically minded person. It is hard, especially with the news that you consume today. It just seems like everything is so negative and it's just compounded and negativity and it can be incredibly difficult to to recognize what type of impact that is having on your perception of the world around you. I'm so glad you had mentioned that, though that's one of the revelations that you had about the assumptions that we make about others and their intentions. I think it's really easy for us to forget that. I know it's easy for me to forget that, especially when you get so embedded with everything that's going on. You know, in the world today it's so easy to assume negative intentions.

Speaker 2: 20:58

You know, on someone else's part, yeah, yeah, what's interesting now is we used to have a saying is that if your mother tells you that she loves, you get a second source. And now it's really nice that when my mom tells me she loves me, I just go ahead and believe her.

Speaker 1: 21:15

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I don't want to beat up on journalism so much. It's not all negative and it's not all doom and gloom, and I know there are a lot of other things that are happening within our society that is having some type of impact on our ability to communicate with one another effectively, and I know etiquette, politeness, is a huge piece of that. What are some of the things that you're recognizing? What are some of the changes that have occurred in our society over the past maybe you know couple of decades that you have found these are some really critical issues that, while I'm talking about etiquette, while I'm talking about politeness, this is getting at the core of some of the things that's going on in our society. Have you, have you run across anything that you've recognized as, yeah, you know, not just journalism, but these are some other things that are happening in our society that is creating this division and this is making it more challenging for us to be polite with one another.

Speaker 2: 22:23

Well, we, the reason that we are sometimes uncivil to one another is always because of stress. And in the past few years, you know, has anybody had any stress, you know? I mean we were at home, we were working from home, we were trying to manage that, and then somebody tells us we have to teach our own kids and you know, stress on steroids all that stress really makes us focus inward, and when we're looking inward, we're not seeing how we're impacting those around us.

Speaker 2: 22:49

And when we're looking inward, we're not seeing how we're impacting those around us. And when we lose that awareness and we become all about me, then we're exhibiting rude behavior, and that's where a lot of that comes from. And so I think it is helpful to think of it as stress, because I think of us as a society. We recognize how dangerous and how unhealthy stress can be, but we just think of rudeness as people who don't know how to behave properly. So when you put it in that frame of what's that person going through, what's stressing them in their life, how can I make it better? If you knew that somebody was stressed because they had a stress-o-eter on their shirt and you could see what their stress was, how would you treat them?

Speaker 1: 23:35

Would you?

Speaker 2: 23:36

treat them a little bit more kind. Would you treat them with a little more patience? So, even when we encounter that rudeness in other people, first we need to look at ourselves and make sure that we are not the ones who are being rude in that situation it's so much easier to see it in other people than it is to see in ourselves but also is to recognize what might be prompting that person to feel that way. And sometimes that takes time and we are a rush, rush, rush. You know world. And so taking that time and treating people with that respect, knowing that some of that incivility comes from stressors, I think it's a good place to start.

Speaker 1: 24:18

Okay, yeah, that's a good place to start. It is incredibly difficult because, you know, we see examples all the time on social media, whenever we're watching television, listening to podcasts. There are no shortage of examples of people being rude with one another, and some are extreme examples. Some people, like you were saying, we look at these as people who are behaving badly, and that could be someone who is destroying a work of art at a at a museum, or someone who interrupts someone at dinner you know they're a public person, like a congressperson or someone like that interrupting them at dinner because they feel so strongly about whatever the topic is you know they're advocating for. Or if you're a public speaker, you're staying on stage and you're trying to do a presentation and then there's someone trying to shut you down while you're doing your presentation. Those are extreme examples, but it does seem like, at least, that these examples are becoming more and more common and it's really concerning. At least it feels like it's heading in that direction.

Speaker 1: 25:30

When you're doing your training and you're having these conversations, do you ever speak with people who do presentations? They get on the stage? Do you ever have conversations with them about? Yeah, if this were to happen to you. This could be a better way to handle the heckler or someone who's trying to shout you down. How do you deal with that if you're on stage and that happens to you?

Speaker 2: 25:56

I think it really depends on your personality and what you can pull off. I mean, humor is a great one. You know, we see that all the time. You know somebody's, you know the president speaking, and somebody's heckling Okay, well, how do you handle that? Now, what do we remember about that interaction? We don't remember, maybe, what the heckler said, or we don't remember what the president was saying, but what we do remember is how they handled it.

Speaker 1: 26:20

Okay.

Speaker 2: 26:21

And so so much of that is not how you're going to handle it, or it's not that you're going to handle it, because you're going to have some reaction, whether it's humor or whether it's asking for that person to be removed. But the important thing is how you do that, and what we need to think of is, before you get on stage way before you get on stage decide how you're going to handle that and what you can pull off and what seems authentic to you. So that's my best advice to people is when you're up there and it happens is not the time to start thinking about what your reaction is going to be. So that is as important as the cue cards that you're having or the parts of the speech that you're using. It is to think about how you're going to react and be able to show some grace when things don't go well, because that is what reveals our true politeness and our sophistication and our poise.

Speaker 1: 27:18

Mentioning true politeness. How do you arrive at that happy medium? Because I know okay. So an honest reaction. I know my personality, like you just said, it just depends on your personality and how you might go about handling that. I can have a sense of humor, but I also know, depending on, like you said, how stressed I am or how irritated I am, I could very easily just have a very negative response to that situation and probably make it a little worse. If I'm going to be honest with you, how do you develop that ability to have that politeness in a way that it's not a fake politeness? Do you know what I'm saying? Because we all learn about, okay, be polite. How do you internalize that to the point where it does become a part of your personality, or is that even possible? Is that possible for somebody like me to internalize?

Speaker 2: 28:23

I absolutely think so. I think so. You know, we become what we're around and what we want to be and what we concentrate on. So if you're a person who concentrates on negative things all the time, of course that's going to come out in your interactions, so it's really what you decide to surround yourself with.

Speaker 2: 28:43

I think being able to have a good comeback is great, but it's again that sincerity and the way in which you say it that is so important. So we can all say, you know, thank you in a myriad of ways. Where it can be sarcastic, it can be, you know, not genuine because we're not looking somebody in the eye, and that that those phrases work for everything. So there's, there's a way that you can pull off that interjection or that humor that really makes it authentic towards you. So I think that that's the important thing. It's not that you're going to reclaim the stage.

Speaker 2: 29:20

Here's another television jargon is that you have the mic and the heckler doesn't get the last word. The person with the microphone does. So I think it's you know good to recognize that you have that power in that situation. And you know and as in any etiquette faux pas we talk about, it's that you admit it you apologize and you move on. Do not dwell on the dropped fork or the piece of spinach that you had in your teeth. It is just admitting, apologizing and moving on, and that's good for so many things in life.

Speaker 1: 29:53

Oh, that is so true. I have said that exact same thing. I taught public speaking at the college level for many years. We've had very similar conversations that look, you can. You can pretty much depend that something wrong is going to happen in your presentation. It's just, that's life. There is no such thing as a perfect presentation. If you make a mistake, don't dwell on it, don't call attention to it. Really Just you know. They don't know what you practiced. As far as they're concerned, everything that you have done on stage, that's all a part of your master plan, right? So don't make a big deal out of it, because when you make a big deal out of it, then that's most likely going to be what they recall right Later on. That's what they're going to remember later on With you had mentioned COVID earlier and it made me think of a question.

Speaker 1: 30:41

I want to. I want to circle back around to that. We had so many things change in COVID, including our ideas of greetings, what is appropriate versus what is inappropriate. It used to be the typical wisdom of the day you meet someone new, you shake their hand, you look them in the eye, you have a firm handshake, and that was the rule of the day, and then COVID happened, and now it's all of a sudden. Do we do fist bumps? Can I shake hands? Do we do the whole elbow thing? What is everybody doing nowadays? I mean, covid is I mean I think there are still people you know getting COVID now, but it's nowhere near as prevalent as it was during the pandemic itself. But it seems like we still have some leftover confusion as to how do you meet someone now, how do you greet them? What's the appropriate thing to do now?

Speaker 2: 31:43

So this is. You know, what I love about etiquette is there was never a better time to jump into etiquette than after COVID, for sure, because so many things did change. It brought so many issues to light. The best thing to do is to be able to shake hands with somebody. I think that we're back at that stage. The other thing is is that you are not required to where it used to be very, very impolite I mean deal breaker.

Speaker 2: 32:09

If you're somebody who doesn't shake hands, I think now it's okay not to shake hands, but you have to be able to convey that message before the other person sticks out their hand. By the time somebody sticks out their hand, you really have to shake it. After that point, if you need to be discreet and run to the bathroom, use some hand gel, wash your hands, whatever you need to do to make yourself feel better about that, but then know next time where you just say I'm not a handshaker, kind of like we used to say I'm not a hugger or I'm not back to shaking hands, but it is saying that before the other person approaches you. That makes that work. I don't think anyone's going to blame you for that. We're hopefully all still giving each other some room to have different opinions on that, but I think that it is important that you say that first before they stick their hand out.

Speaker 1: 33:00

Yeah, Is there a better way to say it than other ways? You know, I'm imagining myself meeting someone for the first time, walking into the room and I do feel kind of funny going I don't, I don't shake hands yet, or I'm not back to shaking hands yet. How, how do you suggest someone who really is uncomfortable with shaking hands still with others, how do they do that in a way that doesn't come off? As you know, it's not so off-putting.

Speaker 2: 33:32

I think you can say something as easy, as I'm not up to shaking hands yet. Put it on yourself, of course. Don't say you look like you're Jeremy. Just say you know I'm not up to shaking hands yet.

Speaker 2: 33:42

Or if you can come up with a little joke you know, it's like I'm not shaking hands because of COVID, something like that that you can come up with a little joke you know, it's like I'm not shaking hands because of COVID, something like that that you can come up and say to people and I think it again it's, it's how you say that, how you present it that is the biggest thing.

Speaker 1: 34:03

Yeah, okay, I'm the weirdo I'm absolutely. You know, right now I'm kind of weird right now. I'm just making eye contact today, that's right, I have not gotten over the weirdness and I do appreciate that you said be discreet. If you do end up in a position where you do shake someone's hands, I think the worst thing that you could do is immediately run over to your purse and grab your huge bottle of hand sanitizer and start bathing in it. That's probably not going to come across as very nice, right.

Speaker 2: 34:31

Yeah, people don't want to be reminded of how germy that they are Right.

Speaker 1: 34:35

That's generally not a good idea, especially when you're first meeting someone. So that's one of the things that did seem to shift during COVID. Are there some other points of etiquette that you saw shifted? That's the most obvious one, you know, with the shaking hands. What are some other, I guess major etiquette finds, if you will, that seem to have changed through the pandemic?

Speaker 2: 35:06

I think another big one was virtual meetings. We were not as adept at doing that before COVID and now we are used to doing that, and that comes with a myriad of issues, whether it's cameras on how late do you wait for somebody when they're going to be entering a Zoom meeting? There's a whole list of things that that brings up. Issues of shared spaces at work and going back to work. Those are all brand new things. Dress codes relaxed so much during COVID that some people are wanting to maybe notch that back up in the workplace, and we were used to only dressing, you know, waist up for things, and now it's important to wear the whole outfit to work. So it really did bring up so many things. From how we interacted socially, you know we had fewer parties how our children learned manners they weren't around as many people at that time. So it really, as etiquette impacts every point of our life, so did COVID, and when those two things get together, there's a laundry list of things that are different now than they were then.

Speaker 1: 36:15

Yeah, what are you recommending in the workplace? I think one of the other shifts also is the idea of showing up on time. You know, like I view showing up on time as incredibly important. I think I view it as being rude to everybody else if I'm going to be late. You know, I and I don't know, maybe that's because of my age, I not quite sure, but it seems like that's another aspect of I don't know if it's COVID or maybe kids today. You know the whole thing. What do you say to organizations that are in the midst of trying to get everybody to come back into work and, like you said, sometimes there's going to be shared spaces. There's the conversation about dress code, there's a conversation about getting there on time. Is there like a maybe the top three things that you have immediately that you tell organizations? All right, these are going to be some things that you need to be prepared for and this is how to get through those challenges effectively.

Speaker 2: 37:24

Well, I can't think of any etiquette lesson that I do give that doesn't start with be on time, whether that is wedding etiquette, dining etiquette, it is meeting etiquette. You know, whatever it is, to start off late is a really bad start, because then you're starting with an apology or you're starting with, you know that, that unknowing feeling between you two. So for me, lateness and on timeness. So for me, lateness and on timeness, wasn't that impacted by COVID? I think it might be impacted just by generations and you know that kind of thing. But really being on time means being somewhere.

Speaker 2: 38:03

If that's a dining situation, you've got plus or minus five minutes. If it's a business situation, you best be in your chair five minutes before whatever is supposed to begin begins. If it's a wedding there, that's a 30 minutes early before the ceremony starts. So so there's so many different situations that being on time and being punctual means differently just in our culture, let alone when we go to other cultures, what that can be like. But for me I think it's, you know, just being aware that rarely is on the dot at the start time on time.

Speaker 1: 38:40

Are you enjoying the Communication 24-7 podcast? I certainly hope so. I'd like to invite you to become a subscriber today. Your support is truly appreciated and as a subscriber, you'll get a shout out in a future episode. Find the subscription link in the show notes or on our website. Thank you for helping us keep the conversation alive. Right, yeah, yeah, that is so crucial. I don't understand why that has been something that seems to be a point of contention in the workforce today. The entire argument of why should I have to be here at 8 am. What's the big deal? How does a manager to effectively communicate to their employee why it's important that we all do this? What advice would you give to that manager who is struggling with that employee who just doesn't get it?

Speaker 2: 39:34

Yeah, I would work on the self-awareness you know. So what would it make you feel like if somebody arrived late for your meeting or, consistently, was 20 minutes late, for you know, a phone call, that's a long time, and the way that you feel about that is how the other person feels about it. And so I think sometimes self-awareness is that you know, I tell people set alarms on your phone. We have this wonderful technology that don't think about when you need to be someplace. We have this wonderful technology that don't think about when you need to be someplace. Think about when you need to leave your house or when you need to arrive at work.

Speaker 2: 40:08

Not just you know running in the door, you know getting the tires and getting into your seat on time.

Speaker 2: 40:21

Think about the pluses and the advantages that you have when you go to a job interview and you get to the parking lot 15 minutes ahead of the interview and then you're able to collect your thoughts, make sure that your tie is straight and you don't have any lipstick on your teeth and you walk in five minutes early. That's right. That's a huge advantage that you're going to have over the person who waited as long as possible, got stuck in traffic, had a flat tire, you know, subway didn't come on time, all of those kinds of things. And I tell people it's as easy to be the person who was always late as it is to be the person who was always on time. It just takes that shift in your mindset and maybe you know a few of those helpful tools like alarms and things like that to help us out. But there is something, there is a wonderful thing that happens to your reputation when you are the person who is on time.

Speaker 1: 41:10

Right and, like you said that, just that mental preparedness, arriving early at the interview, give yourself some time to be able to just not be so frazzled. Do your power poses beforehand right so you feel all confident. So etiquette is something that it's one of those unspoken, unwritten rule kind of thing that we tend to learn through experience. You know, you learn really quickly when you do the wrong thing, when you're you know when you're in mixed company. So how early should parents at least start focusing on helping their kids learn proper etiquette, so that maybe those lessons aren't as brutal as they could be if they're not starting in the home?

Speaker 2: 42:01

I think mealtimes are a great time to practice all sorts of etiquette. So I encourage families to have as many meals. That may not be dinner time for everyone, everyone's schedules are different but to have as many meals together as a family or one-on-one time that is device-free so that's no screens, no TV, no tablets, no cell phones and be able to have those conversations. So what happens at the dinner table is we're talking to one another. We're having conversation skills. We are learning empathy when we're talking to one another and telling them about our day. We're learning to give other people our attention, along with learning how to hold a fork and do all of those kinds of things. But I think having as many moments like that that you can with your children to talk about here's what we value. Here's you know what's important about your day, what was the worst thing about your day? You know we talk about some of those conversation topics that are off limits when we are dining out or dining with others. We don't know very well.

Speaker 2: 43:08

But, those are exactly the kinds of things that parents and kids should be talking about around that dining table and we're probably going to be eating anyway and so I think that that's an easy place to insert some manners, and I don't think it's ever too early. You know, we teach our kids early on. Some of those first words are please and thank you, and it's so important and we prompt those kids over and over and over again to say please and thank you when they're little. We need to remember that that prompt needs to come more often than that and when they're old enough to understand using please and thank you I'm sorry, excuse me. Those words have power, and to be able to use them properly is really some a gift that we can give our kids. Yeah, Okay.

Speaker 1: 43:56

So, parents who are listening, I'm challenging you right now. Pay attention. Mealtime Is the iPad out, is the phone out? You are not doing your kids any favors, and this has been my soapbox for so long. I have an expert in the house that is confirming what I've been saying all along.

Speaker 1: 44:20

Look, christy Spencer said it Make sure, get rid of the technology. And that's how you encourage the conversations and that's how we teach our kids how to do that, those manners that are so important at the table. And if you're the parent that you're immediately sitting your kid down and you're plopping an iPad in front of them because you just want peace and quiet, that's really not doing them any favors. If anything, it's really. It's going to cause a challenge down the road for them. It's really going to impede their ability to not only communicate effectively but just to even understand those social norms that we all need to be aware of, you know, in order to function in society. Are you like me that you go out to a restaurant and when you see the iPad come out, you kind of get that little twitch go up your spine.

Speaker 2: 45:21

Well, and I understand why parents do it, and they really do it with the best intentions because they're not wanting their child to bother anyone else.

Speaker 2: 45:30

But they're really making a huge trade-off when they do that and that is, you know, teaching your child patience those conversation skills that we were talking about, having your child know that what they say is important to you and that you will listen and that all of those things you place above the convenience of others. And sometimes that can be really hard, especially depending on the sitting that we're in, but the trade-off is that you don't have to give that iPad to your child for years and years to come. They learn you know kind of those social norms and to fit in. And you know one thing we see with teenagers especially, and we're recognizing anxiety is so high among our young people and a lot of that it comes from eating in front of people too. That causes a lot of anxiety for people and so when we're not sharing those skills and giving them those little tips and tricks so that they know how to manage their food and those kinds of things, we're doing them a disservice by always placating them with that phone and trying to keep them quiet.

Speaker 2: 46:37

For other people, I just encourage people and especially if you're a family who has dinner at home twice a week make one of those meals device-free. If you can't cut the cord completely, do one more than you're doing now and then see if you can increase it and I've offered pledges on my website where people can go and just download it. Put your names on it. We pledge to have one more device-free dinner together a week and put it on the fridge so that you're all accountable and I'll tell you. You know, I have a teenage son and if it's just him and I one night having dinner, you know I'll try to sneak my cell phone to the table and, you know, do a couple emails thinking, oh, he's 17. He's not going to notice and he calls me out.

Speaker 2: 47:22

Yeah you trained him and it's because you know I've given him that respect. Yes, and he knows that you know he he's deserving of that respect. And and plus, it's fun to call mom the etiquette expert out on something too. But but what we, what we teach our kids, we're going to get back from them and we're going to want their attention someday. And we're going to want their attention someday and we're going to want them to have good table manners someday. And that's not going to happen in a vacuum.

Speaker 1: 47:49

Yeah, yeah. So I like your idea of, if you can't cut the cord completely, dedicate that one night a week and then you can move it, you know, expand off of that, get everybody comfortable with the device free Wednesday dinner and then expand on that throughout the week, Cause it really does make a huge difference. I also that was a rule in my house. My kids are in their twenties now, but that was a rule in my house no devices at the table. That drove me nuts and when they would have friends come over they would warn them no, no devices at the table. My mom's going to take it and I would take their devices. Talk to me, let's have a conversation.

Speaker 2: 48:34

I don't think we're ever going to look back and say, oh, I wish I would have had my children on social media or on their phones more. That's just not something that we're going to do. We know that now. We don't need hindsight to tell us that that's going to be how we feel. So I think that recognize that and moving in a way that's consistent with that is important.

Speaker 1: 48:55

Yeah, and I am so appreciative that you mentioned the anxiety piece with teenagers today Again, taking it back to the dinner table in the home, just giving them that time to be able to have that meal together and have the conversations, no devices encouraging them to have those conversations. That's what's going to make the impact when they are having meals outside of the home lunch, dinner, whatever it is. I'm so glad that you brought up that aspect of it. Another thing I did want to touch on and we're starting to run short on time, but I wanted to make sure that I got this question in because it's incredibly important to a lot of people.

Speaker 1: 49:37

We have an inability, or at least we're uncomfortable with saying no a lot of times. I know that that has been something that I've struggled with in the past. I have so many friends who struggle with that because we feel like, in some way, if we're saying no, am I being mean? Am I disappointing them? You know, is this, maybe this is my responsibility? I'm just not sure. Can you take us through, since you are the expert here, take us through the art of saying no and why it is okay to say no, to have those boundaries?

Speaker 2: 50:15

Well, this is one of my favorite questions, jen, so I'm really glad that we have time to talk about it. So when I talk about saying no, I like to help people remember this process by using the word care. So the C in care is when somebody asks you for a favor or to go somewhere, you first consider. So that's the C in care. Is you consider their request? So really fast yes means you might regret it will likely regret saying yes. And a really quick no means that you didn't even give it any thought. So the first thing to do is consider. The first thing you say to them when you are talking to them is you appreciate the ask. So I'm so glad that you asked me to do this. I'm so glad that you love my cupcakes so much that you've asked me to cook them for the bake sale again this year.

Speaker 2: 51:05

And then the R in care stands for your response. And that is when you would say I'm not able to do it, I'm not comfortable with doing it. Whatever that response is, that's the R in care. And then E stands for empathize. So after you've given your reason. And then E stands for empathize. So after you've given your reason.

Speaker 2: 51:27

Sit back and listen to what that person says to you and understand that they're in a bind, that they'd really like you to do something. Don't change your answer, but just listen to them. And when you use that care approach and you end with listening to them, they will not remember that you said no, which is absolutely within your right to do if it's not your responsibility or you don't have time to do it, but they will remember how you treated them and that you listened, and that will be more valuable to them than probably whatever they were asking you to do.

Speaker 1: 52:01

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:01

I really like that. I just had this conversation today. I had lunch with some friends earlier and we were talking about when people ask you to do something and that's why I love this question right now and how do you say no politely? You know, at work one of my friends had been asked by another nurse you know, she works at the hospital if she could work the following day and she had taken the day off. And she said no, because I have a doctor's appointment. And then the other nurse followed up with oh well, what time is your appointment, you know? And so it opened that door for the other nurse to kind of wiggle their way in to try to force, you know, a yes out of her.

Speaker 1: 52:45

My way of dealing with that is, I feel like you don't owe anybody an explanation. I mean, you can politely say no, I'm not able to do that, and then let that be it. What's your advice in situations like that? I know that we are so tempted to provide reasons as to say no. I know that we are so tempted to provide reasons as to say no because I think we feel guilty in some way or we feel like we don't want to be mean in some way to that person. So what do you say to the reasons? No but or no because just don't offer it, or do you think it's a good idea?

Speaker 2: 53:19

It really is situational no-transcript to get ourselves backed into a corner by kind of giving a fib to somebody or giving them too much information, where again they have the wiggle room to try to change our opinion.

Speaker 2: 53:54

But we can always just say this is really important to me, or I'm not comfortable doing that or I'm not able to help. And I think that those, those are all true and you can deliver that with that honesty and sincerity and not give that person the idea that maybe there is a little bit of wiggle room, because when we are saying something that it may not be 100% the truth, people can tell that in our voice. And so it's important just to you know, be comfortable saying no. Just because people ask a question. They are not expecting you to say yes. And if they're a person who's expecting you to say yes, you know I guess it's your, it's your time to give them a lesson on, you know, realistic expectations from people. But people are going to say no and as long as you do it in a polite, honest and considerate way, I again I think you can actually build that relationship as opposed to hurt it.

Speaker 1: 54:47

Yeah, that is wonderful. I know a lot of people right now are going. Okay, not only can I say no, but now I know how to say no and start with some really low stakes things.

Speaker 2: 55:00

You know, don't. Don don't start saying no the first time your boss asks you to stay late. That is not the time to practice this. You know care method. Use it for lower stakes, use it with your kids, talk to your dog. You know whatever you have to do to get comfortable with that conversation and if you know that that is coming again, when you take that moment to pause and consider the request, that gives you the time to put the rest of things in place before you give your answer.

Speaker 1: 55:28

Okay that is wonderful. So if there's someone out there who is for the first time hearing all about this stuff, they're like wow, there's a whole world of information that I'm not familiar with and it sounds like I probably should get familiar with this, whether they're an adult, a teenager, or maybe they're a parent who they're interested in trying to figure out how to integrate etiquette lessons, you know, at the dinner table or just throughout the home. What advice do you have? Give us your website, and are there any reading materials or things that they can download or what can they grab to kind of help them as they begin this journey?

Speaker 2: 56:09

So what we were just talking about the care approach and I also give 10 ways to say no politely is a download on my website and you can find that at thepolitecompanycom Company is spelled out. So it's the polite companycom. I think that other resources, of course. I'm a graduate of the Emily Post Institute. They just came out with a book last year that updated a hundred years worth of etiquette, which is fantastic for people to have as a resource.

Speaker 2: 56:37

There's all sorts of other newspaper columns and when you it's funny when you start looking for the word etiquette and manners and politeness, how often you will hear it in a day. So just by having that awareness and kind of checking those kinds of things out, I think that we'll we'll understand that etiquette is something that's evolved and it's modern. It's not something that's antiquated. That our grandmas did and we're no longer doing that. We are still 100% doing etiquette. So I just want people to be aware of it and know that there is a way that you can make a positive impact on people's lives without putting your feelings, your time or anything else in jeopardy.

Speaker 1: 57:18

That is wonderful, because I know that that usually is a concern. Okay, I know I need to be polite and all that, but I also don't want to be a doormat, and that's not what we're talking about here at all.

Speaker 2: 57:29

Yes, being polite does not equal being a pushover.

Speaker 1: 57:32

No, not at all Any parting, words of wisdom or anything that we had not had a chance to talk about before we wrap up today.

Speaker 2: 57:42

I'm just so appreciative to talk to you. I mean, it's not often I get to wrap you know two of my favorite things into one podcast interview. So this has been an absolute treat and I appreciate your time so much and I appreciate the audience's time as well. So thank you so much Of course, christy.

Speaker 1: 58:00

It has been so great having you on the show. This is going to be a really popular episode. I think we answered a lot of questions that talk about anxiety. People get anxiety over this stuff, so, those of you who are listening, I hope that you do take a moment, go over to Christy's website, check it out, download all of those things that she had just mentioned, and she gave some fantastic advice on things that you can look up online. I hope you take advantage of that. I definitely will make sure to have a link to her website in the show notes, as well as her contact information. If you want to get in touch with her directly, I'm sure she won't mind, absolutely not. Yeah, go ahead and reach out to her with any questions that you might have. So once again, christy, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to record this episode with me, and, just like you, I was really excited to be able to talk about journalism and etiquette at the same time. Okay, politeness, this is awesome. This all kind of wraps up into a nice, neat little package for me, the best of both worlds as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 1: 59:04

Listeners. I hope you enjoyed this and give it some food for thought. Okay, give it. Give it some time, mull things over and start practicing it. And it's a skill just like any other skill. We got to practice at it to get good at it. So don't get frustrated if you're not knocking it out of the park. You know first thing when you're trying this stuff, because that's not how it works. It's a little bit at a day and, just like Christy said, a lot of it is situational, so it depends. So, be kind to yourself and be kind to others. Extend grace all around, because I think we all could use a little more grace. All right, so I'm getting off of my soapbox now. All right, everybody, have a wonderful rest of your day and we will see you next time. Bye, thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media or leave a rating and a review.